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Post by USMC0331 on Sept 15, 2014 17:47:53 GMT -5
A fellow shooter gave me a copy to read today at Practical Rifle. At $60.00 a copy, there was no way I would have bought it myself, but I will give it a read and post my thoughts on this thread when I'm done in a week or so.
If anyone has read the book, please post your comments on this thread.
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Post by eddiewouldclearhot on Sept 15, 2014 19:40:02 GMT -5
looking forward to it!
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Post by norinco on Sept 15, 2014 21:11:40 GMT -5
I've been reading his blog regularly and was actively looking forward to the release of this book.
But I can't justify the cost at this point.
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Post by omnivorous on Sept 15, 2014 22:19:23 GMT -5
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Post by Diz on Sept 16, 2014 7:38:37 GMT -5
I have the advanced digital copy, which I understand is not as complete as the hard copy, but as is, it's one of the best references for SUT, for the guerilla fighter that I have ever found. Funny you should mention it, I was actually reading it before I logged on here.
What it does is actually explain and amplify what is in the Ranger handbook to those that have never done this stuff much less been through ranger school. It also breaks it down into what is more usable for the guerilla fighter, without supporting arms, such as MG teams, mortars, arty, tac air, etc. For example he describes the procedures for laying down suppressive fire with your semi auto battle rifle, so your buddies can manuever, rather than how to do it with a belt-fed machine gun team. Key points like that which make it relevant to the small irregular unit. And he stresses that with a small 4-man team, movement will usually be back, as in break contact, as opposed to moving forward, which is usually stressed in the military manuals (FM 7-8). So for this reason alone, it is worth getting. Consider it the "concordance" to your "bible".
If that wasn't enough, he actually breaks it down into key skill sets, and the performance objectives to master them, as mini-training exercises. So not only do you get the explanation of what T,T,P's you need, but also a template for training to learn how to do them. This is more important than you know. A lot of folks have the general knowledge of what they need to learn, but have no format of how to go about it. Including myself. I have been frustrated at times because I try to impart these skills to others but didn't teach them in an effective manner so they could learn them. Knowing something and being able to teach something. Two different things.
So yeah, if you can get past the steep price, it's definitely worth getting, especially if you've never been in the military and/or can't figure out for yourself what does and does not apply to the irregular fighter in the regular mil manuals.
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Post by UnforseenWeather on Sept 16, 2014 7:49:07 GMT -5
Might have to scrimp some dough together for this...
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Post by Diz on Sept 16, 2014 13:35:36 GMT -5
I gotta warn ya, Mosby is an acquired taste. He's like an old crusty drill sgt, crude, profane and very opinionated. Like I have any room to talk. He does not pull punches and he may offend you. But he may also save your ass.
Another thing, his manual is based on the premise that the T,T,P's used by the guerilla fighter are essentially the same as used by light infantry. If you agree with that, drive on. I have to say that I agree, at least on the basic level. The basic individual movement, basic team movement, Patrolling SOP, IA (Immediate Action) Drills, and Actions on the Objective (recon, ambush, etc.) are pretty much directly transferrable from a ranger patrol. However, it bears repeating that your mission statement, and the tactics you employ to support it, are entirely different, therefor you need to be able to recognize when military doctrine is applicable, and when it isn't. Mosby does a pretty good job of pointing this out, although I think he's still in ranger mode and is setting standards way too high for the average self-defense group. If you are not a PT stud, you will not be able to accomplish the physical aspects to his liking.
But that being said, he does lay out the combat realities, as he sees them, and it's true that the batter shape you're in, the more likely you will defeat your enemy. A lot of guys are kidding themselves about being able to do these things. That's just the harsh reality of the subject. But with a little luck, and time to train, guys might be able to harden the fuck up to face the challenge. That's just the reality of most groups, IMHO.
What I would like to see number next is the ranger manual re-written with the irregular fighter in mind. That is, shit-can all the stuff on how to mark a PZ and load your chalk onto a Blackhawk, calls for fire, medevac, etc. In other words, all the stuff that is not applicable to you, in a small irregular unit. And, perhaps add a thing or two that is applicable. Like organizing retreat security, running security patrols, and report formats tailored to our ops, without 20 fucking annexes for air movement and all that crap.
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Post by USMC0331 on Sept 16, 2014 16:44:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I'm never impressed with a guy that needs to swear to get his point across but I can tolerate it to a point knowing how my language was before being saved.
What you speak of is why I'm reading as much as I can. I'm the one responsible for training up my clan and trying to put together a slim efficient way of doing so based on sound doctrine. I'm not one to get all Into the weeds with MIl doctrine as like you point out.. It doesn't apply that often, but core defense/offense methods do carry over.
The key for me is to establish a written plan, method that will train up guys from no experience in the shortest manner of time and in plain English.
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Post by USMC0331 on Sept 16, 2014 17:56:16 GMT -5
OK I'm only 10 pages in and I have to stop reading... . . . . . . Because the text is so small and I don't get my bi-focals in until next week!
Sucks being old!!!
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Post by omnivorous on Sept 16, 2014 20:29:18 GMT -5
What I would like to see number next is the ranger manual re-written with the irregular fighter in mind. That is, shit-can all the stuff on how to mark a PZ and load your chalk onto a Blackhawk, calls for fire, medevac, etc. In other words, all the stuff that is not applicable to you, in a small irregular unit. And, perhaps add a thing or two that is applicable. Like organizing retreat security, running security patrols, and report formats tailored to our ops, without 20 fucking annexes for air movement and all that crap. That would be pretty friggin' awesome!
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Post by kenny256 on Sept 16, 2014 21:10:45 GMT -5
I might need to buy this book it sounds like.
Inhave a copy of the rangers hand book and found it very informative....
I just always thought it would be great of someone could explain this to me better.
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winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
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Post by winter on Sept 17, 2014 1:26:38 GMT -5
A classic case of forcing someone to dance who didn't want to.
"I said, NO"
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Post by Diz on Sept 17, 2014 7:19:03 GMT -5
Mea Culpa. I swear like a sailor and to those of you that it offends, my apologies. My wife has been on my ass for years and I'm gonna try and get better.
For those of you organizing a self-defense group, this is the best source I've found for it. The ranger manual is basically an outline and so full of anacronyms that it can be virtually in-decipherable at times. You need someone to espalin things in plain English. And that's what's going on here.
It's slow to start, with a lot of stuff about the state of affairs, and why this is necessary. Then he gets off into the weeds about PT. And then weapons training. Not that all this stuff isn't important, it's just that most of us are already up to that point. But he does have solid training plans for getting others up to speed in these subjects.
But then he gets into the meat and potatoes. Small unit tactics. This is where most folks are lacking, so here is where you will find the most value for you 60 bucks. Starting with individual skills, he builds to team skills. After these basic skills of patrolling together are mastered, he gets into IA drills. Now you learn the most important skills of all, namely how to react to enemy fire, or how to set up a hasty ambush. From here you move on to security patrolling and then to setting up a deliberate ambush.
My only gripe is he is a little thin on actual 4-man security patrol procedures (at least in the e-book). I would like to see more material on actual 4-man patrolling procedures because I think this will be our basic building block. This is the classic SAS call sign, which is organized for mostly long range recce patrolling. I think it fits our needs perfectly. But there is much to learn about how all the tasks and duties are broken down among the 4 guys. For example, who is navigating? Point or TL (team leader)? Who does pace count? Who is handling comms? ATL (assistant team leader) as tail gunner? Where is your medic? Who are the two buddy teams? Lots of stuff you need to work out beforehand. And then, specifically, when doing the patrolling procedures, how it breaks out at the 4-man level. Like crossing a danger area. The ranger manual covers most of this stuff at the platoon level. You need to drill down to the "fireteam" level and see how it works independently. You don't have 2 guys for each flank security position for example. That's half your call sign!
The other thing is how you actually set up perimeter security around your retreat. This isn't covered much either but should be job #1 for the tac coordinator to set up. I'm talking about having a CQ (charge of quarters) where one person is on the radio 24/7. Much like a police dispatcher. This person monitors short wave radio for news, and keeps in touch with all sentry posts, OP/LP's, and patrols. You have scheduled check-ins with this person so they know everything is secure. If anything happens, this person rings the fire alarm and gets the "QRF" moving. Southern Prepper 1 has the best set-up I have seen in this regard. Actual map of the AO hung up and notated with where everyone is at (and any other sightings), radio chargers for independent positions (again much like a police station), and base radios for short wave and communicating with the troops.
Once I get the hard copy, I will try and flesh some of these things out for you guys, like an addendum to the book. Anyone interested, email or PM me and I'll shoot it to you when I'm done.
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Post by USMC0331 on Sept 17, 2014 11:15:21 GMT -5
A classic case of forcing someone to dance who didn't want to. "I said, NO" What?
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Post by panzer0170 on Sept 17, 2014 13:42:44 GMT -5
My only gripe is he is a little thin on actual 4-man security patrol procedures (at least in the e-book). I would like to see more material on actual 4-man patrolling procedures because I think this will be our basic building block. This is the classic SAS call sign, which is organized for mostly long range recce patrolling. I think it fits our needs perfectly. But there is much to learn about how all the tasks and duties are broken down among the 4 guys. For example, who is navigating? Point or TL (team leader)? Who does pace count? Who is handling comms? ATL (assistant team leader) as tail gunner? Where is your medic? Who are the two buddy teams? Lots of stuff you need to work out beforehand. And then, specifically, when doing the patrolling procedures, how it breaks out at the 4-man level. Like crossing a danger area. The ranger manual covers most of this stuff at the platoon level. You need to drill down to the "fireteam" level and see how it works independently. You don't have 2 guys for each flank security position for example. That's half your call sign! Not just an SF thing! Regular Army were doing this in Northern Ireland since the 70's. Not disagreeing with the points you make, they're all accurate. But there are other people to look to for tactics
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