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Post by Diz on Oct 24, 2014 6:24:16 GMT -5
Outstanding, Marine. I'd also be interested on your take of how hard/easy it is to TEACH them to someone totally new to the game. A video of THAT would be invaluable.
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Post by USMC0331 on Oct 24, 2014 11:22:56 GMT -5
I'll try but so far they don't like being on camera for any reason. Maybe a wide angle view will not an issue with their OPSEC
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Post by Diz on Nov 10, 2014 7:45:07 GMT -5
Yeah, good point. Maybe just from behind, at a distance, just to get the gist of the drill.
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Post by USMC0331 on Nov 11, 2014 1:16:58 GMT -5
Well one of them is a brave soul. 66yr old dude impresses the heck out of me with his dedication. He shows up for every practice and improves on his technique and gear every week. See the drill post or kg7ovn.wordpress.com/2014/11/10/modified-a-drill/ for more.
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Post by Diz on Nov 11, 2014 8:59:27 GMT -5
Good stuff. Thanks for sharing this.
It's only fitting that Mosby's book showed up on veteran's day. I like it SO much better in real book form. Now I have a portable hard copy. And I'm a happy camper. It reminds me of the old days when Vietnam vets "self-published" various manuals on these subjects. The layout was sometimes a bit unorganized. The text was full of things that would drive your English teacher nuts. The pics were usually grainy reprints from military manuals. But the information they contained was golden. This manual captures the flavor of those days, which is a good thing in my mind.
The book itself is expanded from the e-version to include a few more chapters, especially the one on combat casualty care. And the added appendices are practically worth the price of the book alone. Among all the "tips of the trade" and so forth are Mosby's actually POI outlines for his classes. So as promised, you not only get the information, but you also get a complete system to TEACH this stuff to others, including Mosby's lesson outlines. You will also find a lot of Mosby's articles from the blog brought together in one place for quick reference.
You know it's funny, but practically every point I've mentioned has been used as a negative by people complaining about this book. All I can say is if you can't get past it, you're really gonna miss out on a real gem. This is gonna be a classic of our times.
I want to start adding some notes to each chapter. Kinda share my own experiences with you that might serve to illustrate a point or two he makes.
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Post by Diz on Nov 11, 2014 9:54:10 GMT -5
Chapter 1: "Tactics are like assholes..." or if you prefer, Mission, Doctrine, and Concepts.
This chapter makes you sit down a define exactly what you are trying to prepare for. For example: "Defending against violent home invasion." Or: "Patrolling within an immediate zone to locate hostile forces." Or: "Interdict any hostile forces attempting to invade homestead." Once you define exactly what it is you're trying to accomplish, you have to decide what critical skills are necessary to accomplish these tasks. In milspeak that's METL, for Mission Essential Task List. These are the specific skill sets you need to teach your crew in order to pull it off. Let's take a look at the first one, "Defending Against Violent Home Invasion". Your METL might look like this: 1) How to stay aware of your immediate surroundings 2) How to hard-point your home 3) How/where to store weapons for quick access 4) Weapons skills: rifle, shotgun, and pistol 5) Special tactics to employ them 6) Combatives 7) Combat medicine 8) Emergency event plan 9) Emergency evac plan 10) Handling captured, dead, or wounded intruders 11) Contacting authorities (non-WROL).
Notice a lot of these skills will overlap with others. This is where a common core is gonna materialize.
The development of METL is guided by your Tactical Doctrine, and Critical Training Concepts. Mosby gives a good list of these, as they might pertain to a civilian self-defense group. An example of good doctrine would be to endeavor to engage the enemy as far out as possible from the homestead. An example of CTC would be to train to a standard of performance. These things will help you define what you need to do, and how you are going to accomplish it. Notice this is a two-part system. First the what, then the how. This is the huge value of Mosby's book. Lots of guys flap their lips about this stuff. Very few break it down into how to actually develop training for it.
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Post by Diz on Nov 11, 2014 14:01:18 GMT -5
Chapter 2: "Strong People are harder to kill", or PT.
Are you surprised? It took him two whole chapters to get into it. We all know where Mosby stands on PT. So let's all stand and sing. Perhaps: "I wanna be a recon-ranger...". Hoo boy. Where to start. OK he's IS right. We all need to get in the best shape possible. After acquiring the knowledge of what you need to do, and how to go about doing it, physical training should be the next big priority.
The question is, how to do so. Mosby does a system cross-fit style training, which is his way of optimizing for combat. I can't really argue with that. This is probably the best blend of pure strength training, calisthenics, and cardio ever invented. Yeah it's hard. Yeah it takes a lot of work. But like the title says, a hard MF is gonna be harder to kill.
One interesting point Mosby brings up about the ruck march training. His standard is 15 min/ mile with full ruck, for combat conditions. You may go under that in training (the overload principle), say go down to 12 min/ mile, but in his opinion, going below this is not recommended and/or necessary. Interesting to compare that to MVT's standards that he is presenting for a III percenter rifleman's patch.
I will add that I have found, after working out pretty steady for over 30+ years now, that consistency is a key component of your program. Better to do less spread over several days than trying to do a lot every few days. I have also found that an annual training cycle needs to include a rest and recovery period, to re-charge for the next year's training. Trying to blow through it, year after year, leads to injury and illness.
Speaking of which, if you get sick or injured, oftentimes that's your body telling you to take a break.
I am developing a new system where I can "peak" quarterly, instead of once a year, or, trying to hold a peak all year. I have found you just can't hold a peak for more than a few weeks at a time. So breaking it down into quarterly training cycles will give you the best chance of being ready for come what may, in that you shouldn't be too far off your peak at any given moment.
Nutrition becomes more important every decade. Start now.
It's all about handling your body weight. The more lean muscle mass you have, and the less fat, the more you will be able to do. Loose the fat. Build lean muscle mass.
The hardest part is getting started. Once you lose fat and build muscle, it gets a lot easier.
Getting older is NOT for pussies. You have lost some muscle mass and some athletic ability. You gotta take this into account. HOWEVER, I will say that you would be surprised at how close you can get back to your prime. It's not an excuse to hide behind. Just train in moderation. Take your time getting back into shape. But do get back into the best shape you can.
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Post by Diz on Nov 12, 2014 14:02:33 GMT -5
Chapter 3: "The Sho Kosugi Shit", or Combatives.
Once again, Mosby takes a hybrid approach, combining elements from the MACP (BJJ-based) and stand up striking (boxing) schools. Bottom line, he believes in leveraging your strength training from ch 2 into the most powerful, explosive attack you can muster. He is also quick to point out that any environmental and/or alternate weapon should be brought into play as soon as possible. I think the newer SOCP teaches exactly this, if you can get access to it. If not, then Mosby's approach seems just as valid.
One thing I do like is Mosby reverses the order of teaching by going into stand up striking first, which to me makes a lot of sense, as most of our H2H fights will start at "boxing" range and go from there. If you can end the fight right there, do it. If not, you may have to clinch, go to ground and finish up. OR you may be knocked off balance and end up on the deck. Either way, the point is to obtain dominant body position, which will allow you to access a weapon and finish the fight.
One other addition, depending on your EOTS (estimate of the situation), you may want to consider fighting in full kit. This is the cornerstone of SOCP, and may be what we require as well. But full kit or not, at least consider your EDC and train from there. You want to be thinking in terms of creating space or position so you can access your weapons. Way too many gun-centric schools teach you to "go to guns" as your first response, when doing so at extreme close ranges will probably end up with it getting averted at best, and taken away at worst.
If you are fighting in full kit, the goal is to keep him away from your primary weapon, or gaining access to your alternate weapons as required. SOCP is teaching the "post", "cross", and "hook" method. The post is merely straight arming the opponent to keep him off you at arm's length. If this collapses, then you cross him, using your forearm across his chest for control, as you access other weapons (if necessary). The hook is if this collapses, then you hook under his right arm, tying him up, while again you access your other weapons as necessary. From here, if the deal isn't done, then it will most likely go to ground. These make a nice transition from boxing range into the clinch, and down to the ground as necessary.
One other point, do not treat this like a one-on-one MMA bout. Fight as team. If your buddy is tied up with some guy, and you're free, go over there and help him out. Their saying is: The fight is won by the first guy's buddy who shows up with a gun. So in that case your first goal should be to get into position so you can shoot this guy off your buddy. Street hoodlums know this stuff and do it all the time. We call it fighting "unfair". You should do it in a WROL situation and call it fighting smart.
Anyways, in addition to his recommended reading I would get Thompson's "H2H, soldier's edition" which contains new material from SOCP that we're discussing here. Also there are a few vids on youtube that illustrate this stuff (search MACP or SOCP).
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Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Nov 12, 2014 14:47:28 GMT -5
Don't forget soft targets...groin, eyes and ears. A knee in the groin or a handful of gonads, a ripping off an ear or thumbs in the eyes, a punch in the Adam's apple to crush their airway will help you gain advantage. Like Diz says, in the WROL, anything goes. Slap, bite, kick, punch, choke, poke...anything. Your life or theirs.
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Post by Diz on Nov 12, 2014 15:00:46 GMT -5
Yeah these should be viewed as a way of creating space or time to access your weapons, not necessarily as a fight stopper. Crazy or hopped up people aren't going to quit coming until you put them down. Entering with pain is the cornerstone of any good combative art.
You think in terms of normal times or people, and yeah, that should cause someone to quit. But in terms of desperate times and people, they may well be enraged and keep coming.
The key to modern combatives is that unlike these techniques which we have all been told are show-stoppers, but have never tried, you use techniques, full speed and power, against a fully resisting opponent. SO there is no question of whether it works or not. If you can do it, GTG. If not, then you move on to another technique.
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Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Nov 12, 2014 15:22:13 GMT -5
Heck, if someone had me in a hold, I'd even try tapping out as if they take formal classes they are conditioned to a tap out. Even if it just causes them to slightly loosen their hold, it may give you an advantage to break free.
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Post by omnivorous on Nov 12, 2014 20:20:52 GMT -5
Heck, if someone had me in a hold, I'd even try tapping out as if they take formal classes they are conditioned to a tap out. Even if it just causes them to slightly loosen their hold, it may give you an advantage to break free. Never forget the psychological aspect in H2H combat. I like that idea of practicing H2H combatives in full kit, just like doing self-defence training in street clothes. Anything that gets you out of the gi, and closer to the circumstances you'd more likely have to use the training in earnest.
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Post by Diz on Nov 13, 2014 7:53:51 GMT -5
Chapter 4: "Hips and Heads, Kids, Hips and Heads", or Combat Rifle Training
This is a pretty solid block on BRM plus ARM for a nice primer on fighting rifle. I guess it should be after he has taught this stuff to countless "G's" on the job. Nothing too earth-shattering here if you've had a decent fighting rifle class. But then again, that's what I like about SF dudes; they don't do a lot of flashy shit; they master the basics, and continually train in them.
He is a big proponent of the prone position, or as close to it as you can get. He also stresses building your base, with NPOA, sight picture, trigger squeeze with beau coop dry fire. He likes a 50/200m zero. From here he teaches mag changes, malfunctions drills and the like. I like his balance between "speed reloading" and "reloading with retention". I know we have stressed RWR a lot around here, and have been called to task about it. I find I can't argue with his thinking. He states that there are two times when you absolutely have to speed reload. When you change the first mag on a chance contact, and when covering your buddy as he rushes. In these cases, speed trumps retention. With this in mind, I think you're gonna need at least 40 mags per rifle. Other times he reloads with retention, just we all did back in the day. 'Nuff said.
He then covers some advanced subjects, such as fighting with NV and white light. I find it interesting that while he trains with NV, he thinks white light is out best low light technique. And he makes a pretty good case for why that is. As a practical matter, we will need to be able to identify, friend or foe. It is a lot simpler to do with white light. As far as the "glint" factor goes, he points out that with the proliferation of even gen 1 gear, anyone can see your IR glint, so practically speaking, it doesn't give you that much advantage over white light. You will still need to move after activating IR illum, just as you would white light. Good food for thought.
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Post by Diz on Nov 13, 2014 8:26:48 GMT -5
Chapter 5: "Oh Shit! I've Been Shot!", or Combat Casualty Care.
This is a welcome edition to the E-book. Any manual without TC3 is really incomplete in my mind. Mosby finally gives us his thoughts on the matter. TC3 is divided into 3 parts. CUF: Care Under Fire. TFC: Tactical Field Care. CASEVAC: Casualty Evacuation. Care under fire, is just that. Basically getting a TQ on an extremity and getting under cover. The main point here is the best care you can give yourself or your buddy is to lay down enough fire to either overwhelm the enemy or break contact.
Tactical field care is the next step where your team medic gives follow-on treatment after consolidation. He stresses that massive hemorrhage is more critical than airway, which differs from civilian protocol. Here is where your medic does everything he can to package you up for transport.
Casevac is getting the casualty to hospital level care. Obviously this is going to be different in our case. Having contacts within your local medical community willing to help you will be critical at this stage.
Good solid primer on the subject. Papa Sierra has put a lot of thought into this as well and will be sharing a few things with us shortly.
Some thoughts on the matter. If you can stop the bleeding you just about doubled your chances of survival, all things being equal. Getting that TQ on is critical. No guarantees here, but if you don't stop the bleeding, you will pass out and likely die. So stopping the flow of blood with a pressure point, versus direct pressure will allow you to treat and move to cover. And hopefully keep your gun in the fight.
That being said, having a TQ readily available on your kit, instead of the bottom of some pouch is critical. It should be exposed, rubber-banded on the outside of your gear, in a very accessible location. A back-up TQ could be carried in your BOK. That way if it gets torn off, you have another.
Having a team medic is a must. He will have the follow-on care you will need to make it back to definitive care.
Community relations. Especially in the medical community. Unless you were extremely lucky and nothing critical was hit, you will need advanced care.
I am re-examing the issue of body armor, and when I will be using it. Obviously, if you can keep projectiles out of your torso, you stand a much better chance of survival.
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Post by Diz on Nov 13, 2014 8:43:30 GMT -5
Chapter 6: "So, You Wanna Be an Operator?", or Individual Skills
Here Mosby gets into the individual skill sets, such as camo, movment, land nav, and basic team movement. These are the basic skills you need to integrate into a small team. He puts a heavy emphasis on setting up your clothing and equipment for patrol, which I think is a very good idea for a small 4-man team. After camo, he goes into basic land nav, which again, I think is a very good idea. For us, using map and compass instead of GPS is probably going to be a very good idea. From there he covers basic team movement including the concept of fire and maneuver.
These are the basics you can practice on your own to prepare you for team skills. Learning to camouflage yourself, and move in a way that attracts the least attention; being able to navigate with map and compass, and actually hit a target; and finally being able to execute 3-5 second buddy rushes, without keeling over and dying. If you can do all this, you're ready for team training.
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