In defense of the (now "old-school") Quadrail

[Erick]

5 years ago picatinny quadrails were all the rage.

They were so incredibly versatile it seemed like nothing could dethrone them.

Now 5 yrs later in an attempt to shave weight off the quadrails slick rails of with screw on attachments have become more popular (and of course keymod as well).

I own Quadrailed ARs, a keymod AR, and a couple of slick railed ARs

I believe the Quadrail is still near the top of the heap for mounting solutions and this is why:

- Only a little weight is actually saved via the keymod or the slickrails over  a quadrail

- The slick rails force you to screw in mounts for your rail accessories to mount on picatinny.

These holes can ( and do) get stripped. When you mount a zeroable accessory ypou want it as tight as possible, yet go a little too tight and you strip the mount. VFGs and AFG or course need to be especially strong since they are subjected to even greater forces (your arm strength)

-Keymod rails avoid this problem partially when and if you buy keymod specific accessories. In theory keymod could be a legit alternative to quadrails BUT the granularity of position is lacking. the more you shoot you will find for your personal ergonomics you have  a preference for  a certain spot. For example my vertical Front Grip on my KeyMod rifle can be mounted either a tad too close or a tad too far out. But my preferred position I cannot quite get. the tight picatinny rail "notches" get me to the right spot "just so" every time.
The Slick rails with mounts match the Quadrails granularity BUT have the issue of significantly lesser robustness involving screwing an extra rail into aluminum screw holes on the slick rail.

So in summary the small weight saving is IMO not worth either the loss of granularity you experience with keymod or the loss of robustness you experience with slick rails.

Thoughts?

[whitebear620]

Good points Erick. I know it isn't a huge consideration for most people, but there can also be quite a bit of cost saving going with a quad rail, no extra rail sections to buy and quad rails can be quite cheaper.
I personally don't do quad rails because they can tear up my hand if I'm not wearing gloves and I don't have any rail covers on, and I also only have the need to mount a light since I have no NV ability at this time.

[UnforseenWeather]

Pic rail pro: Durability. You can't beat that solid shelf abutment for the accessories to mate to.

Pic rail con: You kinda shred your hands if the edges aren't chamfered. Even if you've got leather hands, the wear it puts on your gear might not make it worth it. So you add rail guards which add a little weight and cost.

Keymod/MLOK pros: Weight. Slickness because you only add rails where you want them. Cost.

Keymod/MLOK con: Possible stripped out holes (not sure if that's a real issue or not, but it's possible. I guess you could break a Pic rail slot off too)



I have both and like both. My recent builds are MLOK, though I haven't taken them through training to find out if they're as durable as the quad rails I have.

[UnforseenWeather]

All mho of course

[panzer0170]

Mar 13, 2016 11:12:16 GMT -5 UnforseenWeather said:

Pic rail pro: Durability. You can't beat that solid shelf abutment for the accessories to mate to.

Pic rail con: You kinda shred your hands if the edges aren't chamfered. Even if you've got leather hands, the wear it puts on your gear might not make it worth it. So you add rail guards which add a little weight and cost.

Keymod/MLOK pros: Weight. Slickness because you only add rails where you want them. Cost.

Keymod/MLOK con: Possible stripped out holes (not sure if that's a real issue or not, but it's possible. I guess you could break a Pic rail slot off too)



I have both and like both. My recent builds are MLOK, though I haven't taken them through training to find out if they're as durable as the quad rails I have.

I like the combo rails with pic up top and M-LOK elsewhere. Best of both worlds for *most* things, I reckon.

[Erick]

Let me keep spinning this thread on...

...so about the hand tearing up thing on quadrail...
...even when shooting barefisted (which is not my SOP, but I concede TACgloves can get lost or forgotten etc) since all my ARs have VFGs on them its a non issue for me...(and those VFGs are hard mounted on the 1913 rail.. they do not just come off on their own, but I have observed screws coming loose on railmounts for slickrails)

I decided a long time ago to train with the VFG hold as my default 85% solution (to all but slow/deliberate shots from the prone).

[omnivorous]

For me, its a matter of cost and track record. So, the front runner is quad rail. Not to mention, Daniel Defence's Omega rails don't require permanent modification to the rifle, in order to mount them. That's a big plus for me, since I don't necessarily want to screw anything up, nor have the time lately to research and dig into such a project. I can just take the hand guards of my AR, and screw an Omega 9 (mid-length) on in its place. On the cheese grater effect, just get rail covers for it. They're not that expensive at all, and the minimalist ones which look like little ladders, work just fine.

[matt]

Quad rails are still great and completely sufficient. I still own several and largely agree on all your points Erick. For dead nuts reliability, it is still hard to beat the pic rail mounting interface. It works.

Slick sided rails work really well for me as long as they have a top rail because I can attach most everything I need on the fore end of a rifle to the top rail. I 12 o'clock mount my light or offset it to the 10:30-11 position. Front sight is a given. Sling mounts are usually integral to the rail or in an offset mount off the top rail. That only leaves a 1/2 ounce handstop which is not critical (so, if it snaps off, no biggie).

For example - Everything on the top rail:



If the rail has a super solid mounting interface like those on the ALG EMR or others, you can kind of get the best of all worlds if you can put everything you need on the top rail. You get the durable pic rail mount interface you mention but the significant weight savings that come with not having to have side rails/screws/ etc.

I think people look at a quad rail and assume it is going to be heavy but they really aren't. In fact, before the slick tubes took over, there were already quad rails that were theoretically lighter than polymer handguard with the delta ring/barrel nut assembly. Daniel Defense was leading that charge and I still like their quad rails quite a bit. In fact, their newest DDM4 rails are slim, light, and don't get the attention that they should. MI has overhauled their quad rails to make them lighter and better too. A lot this goes mostly unnoticed because, as you say, quad rails aren't the hotness right now.

If you have a quad rail, drive on!

The new DDM4 rails are slim and light:

[UnforseenWeather]

Mar 13, 2016 11:47:04 GMT -5 panzer0170 said:

Mar 13, 2016 11:12:16 GMT -5 UnforseenWeather said:

Pic rail pro: Durability. You can't beat that solid shelf abutment for the accessories to mate to.

Pic rail con: You kinda shred your hands if the edges aren't chamfered. Even if you've got leather hands, the wear it puts on your gear might not make it worth it. So you add rail guards which add a little weight and cost.

Keymod/MLOK pros: Weight. Slickness because you only add rails where you want them. Cost.

Keymod/MLOK con: Possible stripped out holes (not sure if that's a real issue or not, but it's possible. I guess you could break a Pic rail slot off too)



I have both and like both. My recent builds are MLOK, though I haven't taken them through training to find out if they're as durable as the quad rails I have.

I like the combo rails with pic up top and M-LOK elsewhere. Best of both worlds for *most* things, I reckon.

It really is.

[waffenmacht]

Quad rails are simply old technology. They still work, as they always have...but there are better, more efficient options available now. There are STILL guys that think the M14 is fine and there's no need for the "plastic" AR15. And I bet there were guys that argued the ball and cap was better then brass cartridges, for whatever reason. But as all things go, in the end, we have the Ar15, and we have newer, lighter rails like MLOK and Keymod. Most of my rifles actually have quad-rails, but I am the first to admit that if I were to build them again they would get keymod.

And just for example, a DDM4 10" quad rail weighs 11oz and is 1.90" wide MSRP is $365
a BCM 10" KMR10 keymod rail weighs 6.3oz and is 1.50" wide. MSRP is $254



danieldefense.com/ddm4-rail-10-0.html


www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-KMR10-Free-Float-Handguard-p/bcm-kmr-10-556-blk.htm

[panzer0170]

Mar 15, 2016 19:08:31 GMT -5 waffenmacht said:

Quad rails are simply old technology. They still work, as they always have...but there are better, more efficient options available now. There are STILL guys that think the M14 is fine and there's no need for the "plastic" AR15. And I bet there were guys that argued the ball and cap was better then brass cartridges, for whatever reason. But as all things go, in the end, we have the Ar15, and we have newer, lighter rails like MLOK and Keymod. Most of my rifles actually have quad-rails, but I am the first to admit that if I were to build them again they would get keymod.

And just for example, a DDM4 10" quad rail weighs 11oz and is 1.90" wide MSRP is $365
a BCM 10" KMR10 keymod rail weighs 6.3oz and is 1.50" wide. MSRP is $254



danieldefense.com/ddm4-rail-10-0.html


www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-KMR10-Free-Float-Handguard-p/bcm-kmr-10-556-blk.htm

Serious question; Given the apparent greater success of M-LOK, the free access to it's specs and Magpul's full support for anyone wanting to use it as an industry standard (taken from a variety of keymod vs m-lok videos on the youtube..) Why would you choose keymod out of the two options? Picking keymod sounds like you're half contradicting yourself (From the evidence I've seen) taking a step forward but then another step back.

Obviously you've got reasons, I just don't know what they are or why you prefer keymod

[waffenmacht]

Mar 15, 2016 20:00:03 GMT -5 panzer0170 said:

Mar 15, 2016 19:08:31 GMT -5 waffenmacht said:

Quad rails are simply old technology. They still work, as they always have...but there are better, more efficient options available now. There are STILL guys that think the M14 is fine and there's no need for the "plastic" AR15. And I bet there were guys that argued the ball and cap was better then brass cartridges, for whatever reason. But as all things go, in the end, we have the Ar15, and we have newer, lighter rails like MLOK and Keymod. Most of my rifles actually have quad-rails, but I am the first to admit that if I were to build them again they would get keymod.

And just for example, a DDM4 10" quad rail weighs 11oz and is 1.90" wide MSRP is $365
a BCM 10" KMR10 keymod rail weighs 6.3oz and is 1.50" wide. MSRP is $254



danieldefense.com/ddm4-rail-10-0.html


www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-KMR10-Free-Float-Handguard-p/bcm-kmr-10-556-blk.htm

Serious question; Given the apparent greater success of M-LOK, the free access to it's specs and Magpul's full support for anyone wanting to use it as an industry standard (taken from a variety of keymod vs m-lok videos on the youtube..) Why would you choose keymod out of the two options? Picking keymod sounds like you're half contradicting yourself (From the evidence I've seen) taking a step forward but then another step back.

Obviously you've got reasons, I just don't know what they are or why you prefer keymod

A fine question.  One, I don't like all the fiddling and alignment of the cams that some of the M-Lok requires.  Secondly, I have been disappointed by Magpul many times, and am now so gun-shy that I am very slow to get on board with anything they release or promise.  That doesn't mean I wont get on board in the future, but for now, I'm running keymod on my newer rigs.  Keymod also has the same "free use specs".

[panzer0170]

Valid reasons. I knew there'd be something sensible in there. I think keymod was broke for me right about the point someone pointed out it's like having d*cks all up the side of your rifle. Totally daft reason, but have other serious ones. (as it stands I don't have anything I can use either on, so I'm allowed to pick a side and defend it blindly. That's how the internet works, right?!)

[winter]

This thread has me thinking about taking my quad rail to the grinder and just removing the cheese grater effect and lightening the weight.

[panzer0170]

Mar 16, 2016 15:29:19 GMT -5 winter said:

This thread has me thinking about taking my quad rail to the grinder and just removing the cheese grater effect and lightening the weight.

Before and after shots required!