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Tracer
Feb 26, 2015 13:04:00 GMT -5
Post by panzer0170 on Feb 26, 2015 13:04:00 GMT -5
Is it legal for civilians, in the US?
I ask because of it's potential as a tool OUTSIDE use in SF role MGs, as a target indicator/ammo management/F&M tool.
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Post by waffenmacht on Feb 26, 2015 13:25:02 GMT -5
Completely legal. And we stock alot of it. However, it causes fires, and is banned on most ranges. (we only fire it when there has just been a couple days of rain)
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Post by rmplstlskn on Feb 26, 2015 14:47:18 GMT -5
Yes, legal in most FREE States...
Use of tracer for a prepared citizen would be a good discussion... Without thinking it all the way through, just doing it because people more experienced than I said it was a good idea, I leave my last and third to last round as a tracer as a visual warning to me that I am about empty on that mag... I figure if I am firing 30 shots without admin reload, then two of the 30 being tracer will not give away anything they already know about my position...
Thoughts?
Rmpl
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Post by panzer0170 on Feb 26, 2015 16:41:35 GMT -5
In order of loading, first 2 rounds should be ball, three of tracer together, rest of the magazine ball and top it off with 3 tracer. 3 rounds in a row tracer is very obvious and you've still 2 left in the magazine allowing you to time your reload. By the time you're at the end of your mag, assuming you're in a pair, you should be winning the firefight. This allows your BUDDY a visual signal (because radios break, and you can only shout so loud) that you're going to do a mag change. It works wonders, and it works out of audio/visual range. You can hammer rounds into a target whilst yor buddy maneouvres behind/round cover and gets close. They can no lover see you, but if they see 3 rounds of tracer, there is a pause, then 3 more rounds they can see you're on a fresh mag. Next time they see 3 rounds of tracer they know to get down again. Don't know how well I've explained that, but it WORKS. Same issues apply here for training, because of fire hazard. Luckily it rains a lot here
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Tracer
Feb 26, 2015 16:52:17 GMT -5
Post by rmplstlskn on Feb 26, 2015 16:52:17 GMT -5
In order of loading, first 2 rounds should be ball, three of tracer together, rest of the magazine ball and top it off with 3 tracer. Thanks for the proper sequence... I will utilize this.
But I do wonder about the three top being tracer... My scenarios in my head have my "most likely in a real-world encounter" being the first shot the most IMPORTANT shot I ever make in my life (as I have not had to fire on a person yet), and tracers are not known to be the most accurate of rounds. So I wonder if my potential to MISS goes up in a stressful environment by using M856 tracer for my first three rounds instead of my super-accurate MK262 Mod1 77g ammo, or which, that is the round my scope is zero'ed with... Especially if I have my 1-4x illuminated scope turned up to 4x to verify my target is a true hostile from as far off as humanly possible.
Rmpl
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Post by panzer0170 on Feb 26, 2015 17:01:48 GMT -5
Don't take it as gospel. Worked for me and others, and I've heard variations, but none with a robust reasoning that I agree with.
If you have distance to need to take a super accurate shot, you also have TIME. Feel free to adjust to 1-2 rounds of ball (for RTR purposes, perhaps?) followed by 3 rounds of tracer. Setup as above was used for a section commander who would initiate attacks, rather than calling out distances and arcs and hand angles and all sorts of crap, you put a tracer as near as possible to the enemy. Section does the rest of the work.
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Post by omnivorous on Feb 26, 2015 18:42:26 GMT -5
That's a nifty idea, for a unit leader to use tracers for directing the fire of the unit.
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Post by panzer0170 on Feb 27, 2015 5:26:33 GMT -5
That's a nifty idea, for a unit leader to use tracers for directing the fire of the unit. Yup. It's taught Armywide over here - That, hand angles, clock-ray etc. It just so happens to be the quickest and simplest way. 'Section watch my tracer!' and just start shooting
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Tracer
Mar 11, 2015 14:58:13 GMT -5
Post by eddiewouldclearhot on Mar 11, 2015 14:58:13 GMT -5
for an armed citizen doing SUT, i'd say its a useful tool for team leaders, for target indication etc. Does everyone need to have them? eh, probably not. It does make a handy visual reference during lift/shift fires.
at this point, i'd just stock up on regular ball.
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Tracer
Mar 12, 2015 11:50:44 GMT -5
Post by panzer0170 on Mar 12, 2015 11:50:44 GMT -5
for an armed citizen doing SUT, i'd say its a useful tool for team leaders, for target indication etc. Does everyone need to have them? eh, probably not. It does make a handy visual reference during lift/shift fires. at this point, i'd just stock up on regular ball. But what if the TL is the one who hasn't seen the enemy? We're talking (assuming only use for the first 3 rounds, not for last 3) 3 rounds per man, per contact (and if you're getting into lots of those, you'll run out of your regular ball ammo rapid too...) You're taking what.... 120 rounds would last you ten contacts. (assuming a team of four.) At that point, you're either going to be getting good enough as a team having worked REAL warfare and not training scenarios that they're un-needed. It has to be one of the cheaper ways to increase your effectiveness (Consider the alternative; Teaching everyone methods of indication, range estimation, and then training to put it into practise. You could get kids to watch a tracer and just shoot at the human near where it finishes. I must admit, I don't know the price of ammo, but I can't see it being a bank breaker, especially as it's really only any use if you're training a VERY SPECIFIC scenario (Contact, enemy not seen by all...) For 90% of the rest of your training you can ditch it. How much is say, 100 rounds of tracer?
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protus
Junior Member
Posts: 323
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Tracer
Apr 19, 2015 8:14:32 GMT -5
Post by protus on Apr 19, 2015 8:14:32 GMT -5
I used to carry a mag specific for target id. Like you posted panzer .2-3 ball...5-6 trace...rinse repeat. But not in my current platform...
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Post by waffenmacht on Apr 20, 2015 4:19:06 GMT -5
How much is say, 100 rounds of tracer? About .75 cents per round, on the open market here in the US.
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Tracer
Apr 20, 2015 11:49:15 GMT -5
Post by panzer0170 on Apr 20, 2015 11:49:15 GMT -5
Seems reasonable.
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Tracer
Apr 21, 2015 11:54:36 GMT -5
Post by justanothergunnut on Apr 21, 2015 11:54:36 GMT -5
a great idea I had never pondered!! putting a few tracers up front makes total sense. Shoot where the bright light goes. As a added bonus it starts fires. Sure not a great thing when training in dry areas but imagine trying to take concealment in some brush that the enemy just set on fire!
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Tracer
Apr 21, 2015 18:06:34 GMT -5
Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Apr 21, 2015 18:06:34 GMT -5
JAG, good point with the tracers starting a fire. But, as most things in life, there is a good and bad. If that fire is started close to your AO, you better have a way of putting it out so you aren't forced to evacuate. That would suck, and possibly put you as the hunted and not the hunter at that point. Now if you aren't that close to your AO, well then.....
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