Post by Diz on Sept 1, 2014 16:07:43 GMT -5
Too funny. As a matter of fact, I could shit-can my RDS and fight just fine. Granted it does give me some advantage in faster target acquisition, and better situational awareness with both eyes open, but a lot of Marines fought in jungles around the world for years without them.
Since 1975? How about since 1775, jarhead? Although I have been accused of being at Tun Tavern I'm not that old corps.
I'll give you two scenarios. Scenario #1: You're patrolling around your retreat. Single canopy woodland environment. You spot some unknowns. Distance is approx. 25m. After deploying into hasty ambush, you hail them to see what you got. They fire in return. Now you are proned out, behind cover, firing at a sustained rate into your sector of fire. On command, your team displaces and tries to flank them, using fire and maneuver within your fire team. The intruders decide to beat feet. You consolidate your team on their old position. You plus up your Sawmpfox chest rig from your ruck and drive on.
Scenario #2: You are trying to get home from work when the shit hits the fan. Major rioting in the streets. Urban environment. You have to dismount from your truck. So you are now on foot, working your way through back streets and whatnot to get home. You make contact with an urban street gang. They hate you. They want to fuck you up. You are now in a running gun battle through city streets. Distances vary between 5-25m. You are firing from any cover available, parked cars, buildings etc. You are engaging multiple targets, mostly from off-hand, or just scrunched down behind cover, before displacing. You finally out-run or kill enough of them that they break off pursuit. You plus up your Minuteman chest rig from your ruck and drive on.
I would say that in scenario #1, this is a classic meeting engagement, albeit with different ROE. A standard trigger would work just fine. There are some really nicely polished stock trigger groups on the market now, including CMMG's.
In scenario #2, I would say this more closely resembles what our guys have been doing lately, and what a lot of guys are doing in 3-gun matches and so forth. That is, scrunched down behind cover, and shooting two rounds at three steel targets, or whatever. Here you could benefit from a tricked out trigger. Although if you ran the same course of fire with a stock trigger and one of your spiffy ones, I wonder just what exactly the difference would be.
So again, I ask, within what context are you contemplating having to fight with your rifle?
Another issue is just plain economics and sustainment. There are guys in our group that are struggling just to put an AR together, and get a basic load out built up. Spending the extra 100 bucks or whatever on a tricked out trigger group is just not cost-effective, when you need mags, and ammo, not to mention cammies and boots and so forth. Then, what happens when that trigger needs to be replaced a few years down the line. Unless you stocked up with several spares, you're back to a stock trigger. You lose that rifle in a gunfight, you're probably back to a stock trigger. You get a battle field pick-up, you're probably back to a stock trigger.
So yeah, this may all sound pretty far out there to some. And it is. I have been ridiculed on other websites for taking such a extreme scenario point of view. And that's why we stood up this website. What we are talking about here are possible WROL situations, which may be for extended periods of time, before you can re-supply from commercial channels again (although...never mind). We are not talking about the optimum rifle set-up, that is perfect for your 3-gun competition or whatever. We are talking about a rack grade service rifle that you may have to depend on for years to come. And possibly a small self-defense force, which you may try and get as much commonality as possible with. So maybe I am setting the bar a little lower than the "state of the art" right now. But as in all things, there may have to be compromises made to train and equip your group.
So I didn't mean to step all over your trigger thread here. I'm sure these new units work really fucking good. Just 'splaining why I would stick with a stock one.
Since 1975? How about since 1775, jarhead? Although I have been accused of being at Tun Tavern I'm not that old corps.
I'll give you two scenarios. Scenario #1: You're patrolling around your retreat. Single canopy woodland environment. You spot some unknowns. Distance is approx. 25m. After deploying into hasty ambush, you hail them to see what you got. They fire in return. Now you are proned out, behind cover, firing at a sustained rate into your sector of fire. On command, your team displaces and tries to flank them, using fire and maneuver within your fire team. The intruders decide to beat feet. You consolidate your team on their old position. You plus up your Sawmpfox chest rig from your ruck and drive on.
Scenario #2: You are trying to get home from work when the shit hits the fan. Major rioting in the streets. Urban environment. You have to dismount from your truck. So you are now on foot, working your way through back streets and whatnot to get home. You make contact with an urban street gang. They hate you. They want to fuck you up. You are now in a running gun battle through city streets. Distances vary between 5-25m. You are firing from any cover available, parked cars, buildings etc. You are engaging multiple targets, mostly from off-hand, or just scrunched down behind cover, before displacing. You finally out-run or kill enough of them that they break off pursuit. You plus up your Minuteman chest rig from your ruck and drive on.
I would say that in scenario #1, this is a classic meeting engagement, albeit with different ROE. A standard trigger would work just fine. There are some really nicely polished stock trigger groups on the market now, including CMMG's.
In scenario #2, I would say this more closely resembles what our guys have been doing lately, and what a lot of guys are doing in 3-gun matches and so forth. That is, scrunched down behind cover, and shooting two rounds at three steel targets, or whatever. Here you could benefit from a tricked out trigger. Although if you ran the same course of fire with a stock trigger and one of your spiffy ones, I wonder just what exactly the difference would be.
So again, I ask, within what context are you contemplating having to fight with your rifle?
Another issue is just plain economics and sustainment. There are guys in our group that are struggling just to put an AR together, and get a basic load out built up. Spending the extra 100 bucks or whatever on a tricked out trigger group is just not cost-effective, when you need mags, and ammo, not to mention cammies and boots and so forth. Then, what happens when that trigger needs to be replaced a few years down the line. Unless you stocked up with several spares, you're back to a stock trigger. You lose that rifle in a gunfight, you're probably back to a stock trigger. You get a battle field pick-up, you're probably back to a stock trigger.
So yeah, this may all sound pretty far out there to some. And it is. I have been ridiculed on other websites for taking such a extreme scenario point of view. And that's why we stood up this website. What we are talking about here are possible WROL situations, which may be for extended periods of time, before you can re-supply from commercial channels again (although...never mind). We are not talking about the optimum rifle set-up, that is perfect for your 3-gun competition or whatever. We are talking about a rack grade service rifle that you may have to depend on for years to come. And possibly a small self-defense force, which you may try and get as much commonality as possible with. So maybe I am setting the bar a little lower than the "state of the art" right now. But as in all things, there may have to be compromises made to train and equip your group.
So I didn't mean to step all over your trigger thread here. I'm sure these new units work really fucking good. Just 'splaining why I would stick with a stock one.