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Post by UnforseenWeather on Nov 26, 2015 10:01:30 GMT -5
First up, 5.56mm ARs are the rifles of choice here for me. Especially for SHTF.
But I figured it would be a worthy subject to discuss other calibers for ARs. 6.5 Grendel has caught my eye recently and I'm eyeing an upper build using a matched bolt/barrel set. I like the increased performance down range compared to the 5.56mm.
So let's talk about other AR calibers here - 6.5, 6.8SPC, .204... whatcha got?
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Post by Erick on Nov 26, 2015 10:07:24 GMT -5
I own and operate a 50 Beowulf.
A relatively generous ammo supply with it.
But its of course a caliber limited for checkpoint duty against vehicles...
That's the primary application I can think of for it
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Post by RobertJ on Nov 26, 2015 14:38:39 GMT -5
I have toyed with the Idea of 6.5G or 300 Blackout. I have leaned more to 300B though due to suppression and ammo availability, though neither is in great supply. The main reason I have not gone with either (yet) is I don't want to get into another caliber to stock (especially ones not stocked in bulk at online retailers regularly).I shot more 300blackout suppressed, out of a Spikes Compressor. I've only fired the 6.5G out of a loaned rifle at the range.It was less then a Magazine so no real world comparison between the two. Right now I feel like I need to lay off buying anything new and culling the herd then putting the money into force multipliers. PVS14s are on my list as well as a FLIR.
My current crop of ARs include 5.56 and 9mm. I haven't used my 9s in a while because I like the ballistics of the 556 better then the 9mm in the same size package. Carbines have their place, dont get me wrong but the 556 works.
I have other Rifles that have better ballistics then the 300B and 6.5G like 30-06, and .308 so if I had the need for more penetration etc. this is what I would turn to anyhow. They do have their place but logistics for me has me holding off on it.
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Post by andrewe on Nov 27, 2015 3:08:24 GMT -5
The release of Wolf 6.5mm Grendel (the steel case plinker-grade stuff, not the Wolf Gold that's been out for a while now) and the introductory price at ~$0.30/round has me strongly considering an upper in that cartridge for a future buy.
But for sheer economies of scale, 5.56mm will probably remain the primary choice for quite a while now.
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Post by geardo on Mar 20, 2016 9:22:08 GMT -5
Is 6.5 Grendel suitable for general purpose use in the AR platform, or for precision work only?
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Post by Erick on Mar 20, 2016 9:27:09 GMT -5
Is 6.5 Grendel suitable for general purpose use in the AR platform, or for precision work only? Welcome to the board geardo!!!  IMO the only thing keeping the 6.5 Grendel from being a good carry round is it's cost. Otherwise no reason of not making it a carry round. Keep in mind the 6.8 SPC is designed as a carry round from ground up and it has similar energy and bullet weights...but its cost has gotten in the way its all around adoption. Like many I like my carry round to be something thats affordable enough to stack deep so I can sustain operations for years after the grid is down. |
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Post by geardo on Mar 20, 2016 21:45:10 GMT -5
Is 6.5 Grendel suitable for general purpose use in the AR platform, or for precision work only? Welcome to the board geardo!!! IMO the only thing keeping the 6.5 Grendel from being a good carry round is it's cost. Otherwise no reason of not making it a carry round. Keep in mind the 6.8 SPC is designed as a carry round from ground up and it has similar energy and bullet weights...but its cost has gotten in the way its all around adoption. Like many I like my carry round to be something thats affordable enough to stack deep so I can sustain operations for years after the grid is down. Just curious, how do you think the 100 grain FMJ steel cased Wolf Grendel loads would compare in terms of combat effectiveness versus the expanding 5.56 loadings, fired out of a 16" CQB rifle? That's the question I keep coming back to. |
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Post by whitebear620 on Mar 20, 2016 22:52:25 GMT -5
geardo,
One thing I have heard discussed is that steel cased ammunition has a tendency to be "sticky" and have more malfunctions because of the difference between brass and steel casings, somebody more knowledgeable can give a better explanation. But steel cased for training, brass for actual use.
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Post by geardo on Mar 21, 2016 0:13:24 GMT -5
geardo, One thing I have heard discussed is that steel cased ammunition has a tendency to be "sticky" and have more malfunctions because of the difference between brass and steel casings, somebody more knowledgeable can give a better explanation. But steel cased for training, brass for actual use. Thanks for the advice. I have heard that stuck casings can be prevented or made less likely by lubrication and chrome lining of the chamber. Wolf also makes a cheap brass 100 gr FMJ loading for Grendel, so I guess my question could be applied to it. |
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Post by panzer0170 on Mar 21, 2016 6:09:42 GMT -5
Assuming a full rifle and not just an upper, why not 7.62?
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Post by waffenmacht on Mar 21, 2016 6:45:14 GMT -5
Assuming a full rifle and not just an upper, why not 7.62? Cost, for one. 7.62 training ammo is around $500 per K, wheres as 5.56 would be $300 per K. The rifle is typically heavier, more recoil, and lower capacity. BUT the benefit would be an available ammo supply in SHTF, and 7.62 is a standard mil round. |
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Post by geardo on Mar 21, 2016 8:03:01 GMT -5
Assuming a full rifle and not just an upper, why not 7.62? My wife is my designated marksman (she has real talent) but she is uncomfortable with the recoil of .308 (possibly solved with a muzzle brake). I like the cost and lethality of XM193 out of an A2 configuration in open terrain but feel that it lacks the ability to punch through cover in CQB, which is pushing me towards the AK. Grendel seems like a chambering that could solve both problems out of a single platform while also giving longer range punch to a 16" recce type build. Maneuver elements with the ability to provide meaningful fire support instead of just suppression without having to tote a full scale battle rifle seems like a significant force multiplier. Also I don't like the cost and/or reliability of precision rifles chambered in .308 (M14 somewhat excepted). The bolt face issue with Grendel seems minor in comparison to the reliability issues with the AR10/SR25 platform, and accurized FALs or G3s are just damned expensive. As far as .308 being an issue round, I do like the chambering and in an ideal world would have more than just my accurized .308 bolt gun lying around (HK91 anyone?). But when and if that time comes there will be plenty of them 'lying on the ground.' |
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Post by panzer0170 on Mar 21, 2016 8:06:46 GMT -5
Assuming a full rifle and not just an upper, why not 7.62? Cost, for one. 7.62 training ammo is around $500 per K, wheres as 5.56 would be $300 per K. The rifle is typically heavier, more recoil, and lower capacity. BUT the benefit would be an available ammo supply in SHTF, and 7.62 is a standard mil round. I meant in place of something like the 6.5's and all the other rounds. I've experience with most of the common military and most of the pistol calibres. 'bespoke' rifle calibres are out of my sphere of knowledge. Does not 6.8 cost more per K too? And weigh more? (Assuming larger diameter is going to mean heavier gr weight too... |
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Post by panzer0170 on Mar 21, 2016 8:10:02 GMT -5
Assuming a full rifle and not just an upper, why not 7.62? My wife is my designated marksman (she has real talent) but she is uncomfortable with the recoil of .308 Fair enough! (possibly solved with a muzzle brake). I like the cost and lethality of XM193 out of an A2 configuration in open terrain but feel that it lacks the ability to punch through cover in CQB, which is pushing me towards the AK. Grendel seems like a chambering that could solve both problems out of a single platform while also giving longer range punch to a 16" recce type build. Maneuver elements with the ability to provide meaningful fire support instead of just suppression without having to tote a full scale battle rifle seems like a significant force multiplier. Also I don't like the cost and/or reliability of precision rifles chambered in .308 (M14 somewhat excepted). The bolt face issue with Grendel seems minor in comparison to the reliability issues with the AR10/SR25 platform, and accurized FALs or G3s are just damned expensive. As far as .308 being an issue round, I do like the chambering and in an ideal world would have more than just my accurized .308 bolt gun lying around (HK91 anyone?) There appear to be some really nice .308 rifles in the AR style, that seem to be nice levels of accurate and considerably more reliable than historic AR10s; And a price point I don't dislike (Considering my 'want' rifle is either a Tavor or an X95 and they're in that same price bracket...). But when and if that time comes there will be plenty of them 'lying on the ground.' |
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Post by waffenmacht on Mar 21, 2016 8:29:28 GMT -5
Cost, for one. 7.62 training ammo is around $500 per K, wheres as 5.56 would be $300 per K. The rifle is typically heavier, more recoil, and lower capacity. BUT the benefit would be an available ammo supply in SHTF, and 7.62 is a standard mil round. I meant in place of something like the 6.5's and all the other rounds. I've experience with most of the common military and most of the pistol calibres. 'bespoke' rifle calibres are out of my sphere of knowledge. Does not 6.8 cost more per K too? And weigh more? (Assuming larger diameter is going to mean heavier gr weight too... Comparing apples to apples, Brass cased 6.5 Grendel by wolf is about $800 per K. Magazines are proprietary and are usually of lower capacity, such as 26 rounds. From what I have seen in numerous training classes 5.56 is by far the most popular AR round encountered, followed by 300 Blackout, 7.62 Nato, then all the other "niche" rounds listed above. The weight problem with the 762 isn't the weight of the bullet per-se, but the weight of the rifle needed to fire it, as they have longer/beefier receivers, bolts, and barrel nuts. As long as you understand and embrace the cons that come with a 762 AR, there is, in my opinion, nothing wrong with running one as primary carbine. |
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