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Post by Hawkeye on Oct 15, 2014 11:42:43 GMT -5
Here's a little never before seen video of Diz and myself doing a little T&E with some 5.45 AK's & Minuteman rigs. This wasn't really training, per se, but more just the guns and gear a little workout. We are a bit more focused and purposeful when we are actually training.
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Post by USMC0331 on Oct 15, 2014 12:32:52 GMT -5
One less mag for the future conflict. sorry, couldn't stop myself.
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Post by Diz on Oct 15, 2014 13:18:44 GMT -5
You know where you can stick that mag boo.
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Post by Hawkeye on Oct 15, 2014 14:45:20 GMT -5
Like I said....not training.
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winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
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Post by winter on Oct 15, 2014 15:30:03 GMT -5
You know I gotta sharpshoot the 2 guys reloading at the same time. I know, not training, not training, but come on..lol
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Post by Diz on Oct 15, 2014 15:53:20 GMT -5
Yeah yeah it happens. We down-loaded mags so we could each do one. Trouble is we both shot the same rate. Good learning point. One guy needs to perhaps take a lead and put down some rounds, while other guy is in sustained fire mode. That way the mags changes might be more staggered. Or maybe better comms, where guy reloading SAYS he's reloading so his partner will slow down a bit, or even switch up to pistol if appropriate.
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Post by USMC0331 on Oct 15, 2014 17:07:25 GMT -5
All kidding aside and realizing it's not a dedicated training clip, all video shared is helpful. That shooting at the same rate thing is a real issue I've found and I try to shoot a little faster than sustained rate because newer shooters go slower when doing contact drills so it keeps us offset better.
When your reloads are faster, the downtime is less so it's not that big when two speed shooters are going at it. Now if you truly are out in the open hiding behind your rounds only (not just because the range dictates it) than that silence is forever I'm going to guess since I've not been in that spot.
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Post by Diz on Oct 16, 2014 9:03:43 GMT -5
Good point. I think we need to explore the varied rates of fire more in training. Realizing of course that it's difficult to pull off under stress, but that doesn't mean we can't try and raise the bar. More experienced man take the lead and off-set from your junior partner? Probably a good starting point.
This clip was simply a warm-up drill for Hawkeye and myself to work together before attending Dedicated Pro's DIRE class. Basically shooting together SAFELY was the goal here. But it does serve to illustrate what you can do better, no doubt.
And of course the AK reload is a bit slower than the AR. Having a magwell does make a difference, especially in low light.
And finally distance dictates the response. If we're within pistol range, at least one could transition to secondary while one reloads primary. Or both transition to pistol. Or go hands on. Whatever the sit calls for.
But yeah, point taken, that pause could be hazardous to your health.
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winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
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Post by winter on Oct 16, 2014 14:28:19 GMT -5
What is you fellas regular SOP on a break contact?
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Post by johnlangdon on Oct 16, 2014 21:38:32 GMT -5
Winter - I would assume it's something like this: return fire, take cover (signified by them taking a knee), return appropriate fire. Did/Hawkeye - correct me if I'm wrong!
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winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
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Post by winter on Oct 16, 2014 22:44:23 GMT -5
Thanks John, but not what I meant.
Break contact drills differ through the ages and weapon systems. I know Nam LRRPS did 20 rd mag dumps, LRS in the mid 90's did not do mag dumps.
I don't know you so I don't wanna type out a lot of shit about light infantry that you may already know.
I have seen absolutely terrible break contact and react to ambush drills taught at pretty high speed schools.
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Post by Diz on Oct 18, 2014 10:12:57 GMT -5
Winter:
It's a continuous process. We are currently working on our individual movement and basic team skills. Our "break contact" drill at this point is very basic. Hopefully we will improve on it as time goes by.
Our default setting is to break contact. So with this in mind, here's a "typical" scenario:
We are a small 4-man team, patrolling along and get fired up. We immediately drop in place. Let's say it's a hasty ambush on our right. So let's say TL (second in line, who SHOULD have seen this shit) calls out "ambush right". We all re-orient to right side and return fire. TL decides to break contact. So he yells "break contact" "twos back" which signals the second buddy team (of left flank and tail gunner) to leap frog back. Once they are in position and laying down covering fire, the "ones" displace and leapfrog past them. We continue for let's say 4-5 movements, or about 100m. This is about the average distance needed in our AO to disappear from sight. Consolidate back into a 360 and take stock. Plus up mags, etc. If we have broken contact, then re-orient and Charlie Mike.
Some notes. Like I said, our default setting is to break contact. Realizing that each situation is different, we feel that breaking contact is the best course of action with a small 4-man team, until we know a little more about the sit. Like is this point for an opfor BN.
Rate of fire. We don't do "mag dumps" cuz we don't have the ammo and I think aimed fire is more effective than spray n pray. Not that we're not pumping it out, but doing so in a controlled manner behind the RDS. In this scenario I would expend about 100 rds.
Once movement is called out, and buddy team selected (we say "ones" and "twos" but whatever you use), it's considered automatic leapfrogging (when you hear gunfire) until TL calls for a 360.
The buddyteams can fall back together, or break it down further and cover each other, at their discretion. You may run, duck walk, crawl on your knees, or whatever. Terrain and sit.
Any comment, suggestions, etc. are welcome and appreciated.
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Post by waffenmacht on Oct 18, 2014 16:32:25 GMT -5
Good discussion here guys...
I agree that doing mag dumps for the sake of doing mag dumps is counter-productive for the size of squads and loadouts we typically run. At the end of the day we simply don't have enough ammo to waste...Except on the occasion we run a belt fed but even then we don't carry a ton of ammo to burn because it is heavy, the belt fed is heavy...etc. I guess no one knows what actual scenario we will face when the time comes to employ these tactics, but I don't see re-supply being a radio call away.
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winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
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Post by winter on Oct 18, 2014 17:23:27 GMT -5
Diz, reacting to ambush is an entirely different drill from breaking contact. Maybe you worded it wrong. If you have been ambushed then some of you are shot for sure. Close ambushes are assaulted, attempting to run is suicide. Far ambushes are close to a routine break contact drill except you have to have a base of fire as a measure of security for those carrying your wounded. The biggest faults in break contact and react to ambush drills I have seen are people withdrawing through the opfors field of fire as opposed to getting out of the field of fire first. That barely makes sense and I can't figure out a better way to word it so. Red dots- bad guys, blue dots-you, green arrow-the correct direction to run, red arrow- wrong direction because you stay in the opfor's field of fire.
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winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
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Post by winter on Oct 19, 2014 4:13:38 GMT -5
Is it stupid of me to post that?
I swear to you that the RTB cadre taught us to run the red arrow. I questioned them and was instantly reminded I was not in a Ranger Battalion and should STFU.
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