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Post by m1a2abramsman on Sept 20, 2014 12:33:30 GMT -5
I would like people's opinions on what would be a good DMR rifle in .308/7.62x51? I'd like for it to be under $2000 not including the optics. Able to engage targets out to 700 meters, semi-auto, and not over 13 pounds. What and why do you guys recomend?
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Post by panzer0170 on Sept 20, 2014 13:15:26 GMT -5
Well a well built FAL will hit man sized targets out to a thousand metres(used to be part of the annual testing when the SLR was still a personal weapon, pre-SA80). Plenty of mags already available. Chuck a bipod on it and you're there.
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Post by UnforseenWeather on Sept 20, 2014 13:20:48 GMT -5
As usual, opinion follows: I've been through the FAL phase (got rid of it, interesting rifle but not accurate enough for my like), the M1a phase (if you can get a good one, yay, but holding that accuracy potential can be tough over time). and now I've come around to a fact that lingered in the back of my head for a while now: if you have training on the AR platform and are familiar with the operation and maintenance of one, why not go with a .308 AR? If you pick up any of the "Sniper" print magazines (at the supermarket, I lol at that) you'll note that AR pattern semi-autos are picking up steam for anything inside 1000 yards. Admittedly they're high-zoot LaRue or JP rifles, but it's happening. And from that rarefied air comes refinements that the rest of us mere mortals can benefit from. If I was in your spot right now I'd pick up an M&P 308 and put something like the Mark AR 308 optic on it in a QD mount and enjoy not having to worry about it holding zero like an M1a or anything. M&P 10 product linkLooks like you can get one for probably ~$1500ish (actual price) at a gun store and upgrade furniture if you like (I like rails, I cannot lie) and get some Pmags, all for under the $2k price tag you note.
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Post by m1a2abramsman on Sept 20, 2014 13:25:42 GMT -5
That's one of the ones I've been considering. Either the FAL, PTR-91, or some variation of the AR-10. Id be putting a Leupold Mk 4 3-9x40 scope and a two stage trigger pluss a bipod on it. Keeping it under 2 grand is the hard part.
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Post by m1a2abramsman on Sept 20, 2014 13:35:53 GMT -5
I do have extensive experience with the M4. I just havent found an AR in 308 that is in my price range other than the DPMS ones. And from what Ive head about them, Im not impressed. Do the M&Ps come with an 18 or 20 inch heavy barrel?
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Post by panzer0170 on Sept 20, 2014 13:40:36 GMT -5
As usual, opinion follows: I've been through the FAL phase (got rid of it, interesting rifle but not accurate enough for my like), the M1a phase (if you can get a good one, yay, but holding that accuracy potential can be tough over time). and now I've come around to a fact that lingered in the back of my head for a while now: if you have training on the AR platform and are familiar with the operation and maintenance of one, why not go with a .308 AR? If you pick up any of the "Sniper" print magazines (at the supermarket, I lol at that) you'll note that AR pattern semi-autos are picking up steam for anything inside 1000 yards. Admittedly they're high-zoot LaRue or JP rifles, but it's happening. And from that rarefied air comes refinements that the rest of us mere mortals can benefit from. If I was in your spot right now I'd pick up an M&P 308 and put something like the Mark AR 308 optic on it in a QD mount and enjoy not having to worry about it holding zero like an M1a or anything. M&P 10 product linkLooks like you can get one for probably ~$1500ish (actual price) at a gun store and upgrade furniture if you like (I like rails, I cannot lie) and get some Pmags, all for under the $2k price tag you note. Would also suggest the L129A1 (New DMR for us - It's pretty shiny. But apparently it's quite a way over the $2000 mark ) Definitely where it's at though. Common 'manual of arms' is definitely a winner. If they ever make a Tavor in 762x51.... Definitely want!
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Post by m1a2abramsman on Sept 20, 2014 13:46:10 GMT -5
Agreed, a Tavor in 7.62x51 would definitely find a place in my gun safe. Hopfully when I can afford it, I'll just build one to fit my needs. I am training to be a gunsmith after all. But that'll be quite a bit more than I can spend in the next year.
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Post by m1a2abramsman on Sept 20, 2014 13:58:09 GMT -5
I almost bought a Tavor. I ended up building an AR15 instead. I have alot of experience with the M4 in the Army and it was 3/4 the price. I still want to get a Tavor, but it wont be my go to rifle.
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Post by panzer0170 on Sept 20, 2014 14:07:21 GMT -5
I almost bought a Tavor. I ended up building an AR15 instead. I have alot of experience with the M4 in the Army and it was 3/4 the price. I still want to get a Tavor, but it wont be my go to rifle. My main experience with magazine fed weapons is bullpup. The majority of them have some serious flaws. Tavor still has SOME limitations, but so do all rifles, it just depends what you intend to use them for! When I get to the US, the Tavor will be my go to rifle for 99% sure.
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Post by UnforseenWeather on Sept 21, 2014 16:32:49 GMT -5
I saw elsewhere on the interwebs that IWI is developing a .308 Tavor. I'll be dipped.
Got to get me a 5.56 first, but that is pretty dang cool!
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Post by panzer0170 on Sept 21, 2014 16:54:15 GMT -5
I saw elsewhere on the interwebs that IWI is developing a .308 Tavor. I'll be dipped. Got to get me a 5.56 first, but that is pretty dang cool! Link, for my dreams? If it is reliable, and is basically the AR10 to the AR15, I shall definitely have to have one. Ideally it'll take FAL or some other mass produced box mag, without masses of effort. I would be heavily stoked if I could make a half decent SnAW from one! (SnAW - Squad nearly Automatic Weapon). I would love a heavy calibre version, probably 18" barrel with a bipod and perhaps a higher level of zoom optic (6 or so). I suppose it could be a DMR, but that'd depend of inherent accuracy - The Tavor seems to be good enough for ME as an AR... But it doesn't seem to hold itself to DMR standards (unless you can get hold of yourself an accurate one, but if you're just buying from a shop, and not selecting from a production line like a military organisation can do...)
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Post by USMC0331 on Sept 21, 2014 17:48:36 GMT -5
So I gotta ask... is this going to be the only rifle you carry or is it a specialty weapon that you will trade your carbine out for?
If the later, then you will get a lot more for your money (except weapon weight) by going the bolt gun route. $2000 will get you a truly 1/4 MOA gun out to 1000 yards in .308 and 1600 yards in 300WM built by one of the best GA Precision.
If it's going to be your all around gun? You'd be better off setting up a 556 AR15 to reach out to 700/800 IMO. Unless you really need to make head shots at 600 yards going to a .308 or larger is just adding weight and reducing the amount of firepower you can carry.
600 yard COM hits are easy with with a 4x ACOG on a standard M4 upper, easier with a 10X scope and mildots. Consider what you really need before getting what you are asking for.
Running a gas 308 is not like bolt 308, there are 3 impulses you have to contend with verses 1 and follow up shots are over rated at the range the .308 will get you to that the 556 can not.
If you just want another gun in .308 that's semi-auto? The GAP AR10 I had was a true 1/4 MOA out to 600 yards (farthest I was able to keep it under 1/4) and probably farther, but I traded it for a GAP Remy 700 build and it fit a role better than the AR10 did.
Now I've given up on anything but a 556AR for my main rifle and work on stretching it's legs. It's the Injun not the bow.
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Post by UnforseenWeather on Sept 21, 2014 18:13:06 GMT -5
I saw elsewhere on the interwebs that IWI is developing a .308 Tavor. I'll be dipped. Got to get me a 5.56 first, but that is pretty dang cool! Link, for my dreams? If it is reliable, and is basically the AR10 to the AR15, I shall definitely have to have one. Ideally it'll take FAL or some other mass produced box mag, without masses of effort. I would be heavily stoked if I could make a half decent SnAW from one! (SnAW - Squad nearly Automatic Weapon). I would love a heavy calibre version, probably 18" barrel with a bipod and perhaps a higher level of zoom optic (6 or so). I suppose it could be a DMR, but that'd depend of inherent accuracy - The Tavor seems to be good enough for ME as an AR... But it doesn't seem to hold itself to DMR standards (unless you can get hold of yourself an accurate one, but if you're just buying from a shop, and not selecting from a production line like a military organisation can do...) Says "possibly" here... www.guns.com/2013/03/06/iwi-possibly-developing-tavor-in-7-62-nato/Also here, may be from the same Ynet report... www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/03/05/iwi-developing-a-7-62x51mm-tavor-x95-rifle/Could be interesting SHOT show this year!
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Post by m1a2abramsman on Sept 24, 2014 10:24:18 GMT -5
Back when I was active duty Army, I'd regularly get hits on a man sized target at 400 meters with open iron sights on my M4 with its 14.5" barrel. Then I got an ACOG, and it was the best optic I've ever used. Though oddly enough, I never had the opportunity to shoot past 300 meters once I had the ACOG. I now have a 14.5" gas piston AR15 in 5.56 that's waiting for its ACOG. Its my go to rifle for SHTF. I know I can reach out to about 500 meters with it once I get that ACOG on it. I was looking for a rifle that can engage targets out to around 700 or 800 meters for when my AR15 just doesn't have the range.
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Post by USMC0331 on Sept 24, 2014 11:05:38 GMT -5
You want a bolt gun in 300WM or 338 Lapua then. If you are using it as a specialty weapon, get one that will be special.
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