tada
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Post by tada on Apr 23, 2012 18:52:45 GMT -5
Hi there from the Czech Republic So how many of you here do run Vz. 58 (CZ 858) rifle? Since there´s no special forum I placed it in the Ak discussion. Since Ak was never very prolific in Czech republic, they are kinda hard to get and even the cheapes Norinco are twice as pricy than semi-auto Vz. 58. Don´t know how familiar are all of you with Vz. 58 platform so here are some basic facts to differ it from Ak platform: 0. Every Vz. 58 is milled, not stamped But it weights much less than AK. 1. It´s short stroke piston - piston is not attached to bolt carrier and is not running in any kind of tube. 2. It´s locking mechanism is actualy similar to Beretta pistols, not rotary bolt in AK 3. It´s striker fired, theres no hammer. 4. Bolt stays open after last shot fired and since it whole top is uncovered it can be recharged with SKS stripper clips. Bolt can be actually locked manualy with button on the left front side of the trigger guard. 5. It´s not AK magazines compatible! It uses it´s own magazines made from aluminium. They are very light. AK magazines are usable with modifications. About 1mm of grinding their width and moving the locking latch - it doesn´t pays of, only when u want to use the drum. 6. Barrel is factory threaded for use with flash suppressor for the night vision equiped military version. 7. Safety is not anywhere close to the huge AK lever... It´s actually pretty AR similar, but with different operating logic. Orginaly it was: when forward - full auto, downwards - safe, towards shooter - semi auto. There were numbers 30,0,1, The saying was: with 30 towards enemy, none for the ground and one for yourself Well, me and my friends we use our semi-auto CZ 858s for our "tactical" trainings. We run them pretty hard... It seems to us, that they are actualy little bit simple designed than Ak and their have less malfunctions. Now we are making final configuration to our rifles. Magpul MS3 slings, mounting red dot sight on mine - iron sights are pretty crude... And of course I wrote an e-mail to UW Gear to ask, if theres a possibility of getting one of their minuteman rig into the Czech Republic. So thats some of basic knowledge about Vz. 58 assault rifle. If any of you have any questions don´t hesitate to ask... I mean anything about Czech and Czechoslovak weapons, even pistols, sporting and hunting ones, I think I can pretty much answer almost any questions since I live in the country of their origin and I frequently have some of these in hands (CZ 75 pistol, Vz 52 pistol, Vz 82 pistol...)...
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Post by Hawkeye on Apr 23, 2012 18:57:41 GMT -5
Ever since watching Military Arms Channel's video on the VZ 58's, I've been very intrigued by them. They look/sounds like very good weapons. Thanks for posting that info. Its always good to have it from someone with hands on experience with them, and it doesnt get any more first hand than from someone in their country of origin. We're working on a solution to start getting some stuff overseas. Hang in there for us.
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tada
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Post by tada on Apr 23, 2012 19:23:50 GMT -5
I almost forgot to mention - barrel is of cource chrome lined, as the piston and piston chamber (gas block). I really like mine. I do have the V version - side folding stock. As I understand, that would be in US considered as short barreled rifle, so some ATF paperwork and special 200 dollars tax is required? I can say pretty sure, that semi-auto Vz. 58 are the most prolific semi-auto rifles in Czech republic. It can be enhanced with stuff from FAB Defense, or Czech company Gunexpert, which even made it to shoot 5.56 NATO rounds and some kind of new mag-well, so it will accept STANAG magazines. But most people runs plane-jane Vz. 58... Sometimes witch brake or comp (mine has none, since I´m looking for flash suppressor, which is kinda hard to find in Czech Republic), someone runs optic - totaly unworthy the problems with mounting it. I think, red dot is enough... Well, to be honest I´m not all into com-block weapons As secondary weapon I carry Remington 1911 (or even Single Action Army Cavalry model sometimes)... So it´s Czech primary and when it wents click I rely on those big .45 230gr slugs doing their job...
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Horse
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Owner: RS Regulate
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Post by Horse on May 8, 2012 16:11:10 GMT -5
Tada - thanks for posting!
I am working with some people on better optics mounts for VZ-58's but had a related question: How many in the Czech Republic have side rails for optics? I know it is not common even here, but do you know if it is common in CR?
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Post by grendal1989 on May 8, 2012 21:53:56 GMT -5
I've been running a D-Technik (now Czech Small Arms imported by CzechPoint) for the past three years now and I have to say I am very happy with it. It replaced my AMD-65 as my go to gun(I ended up trading it away for a passel of ammo). The fact that it was lighter than my AMD even though it had a fixed stock, 2" more barrel, and milled receiver.
It has proven more reliable than my AMD (which only had a couple instances of a casing horizontally wedged in the receiver cover, which couldn't happen with my VZ). However, since it does have that 180 degree ejection port I have been stuck with upper hand guard optic mounts if I want to co witness and am very interested in a mount like RS Regulate has for the AK. I know Canada has an incredible number of vz's since they can't have ak's so it may be worth while to check one of their forums as well for a feel on how prolific the side rail is.
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Horse
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Owner: RS Regulate
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Post by Horse on May 9, 2012 10:20:05 GMT -5
Czechpoint has told me that even for them the side rail is not as common as a naked side.
I'm just snooping around seeing what kind of potential numbers we would be seeing.
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Post by jsbcody on May 9, 2012 16:57:27 GMT -5
Czechpoint has told me that even for them the side rail is not as common as a naked side. I'm just snooping around seeing what kind of potential numbers we would be seeing. I have the side rail and I bought the mount for it. I was not that happy with the set up, really had to have an adjustable comb stock to use it. In fact to set the comb adjustment correctly you had to a chin weld the red dot sight and a cheek weld with the iron sights. I ended up ditching the mount and went with a NEA front rail and a quick detach latch on my Aimpoint Micro.
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tada
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Post by tada on May 9, 2012 19:30:25 GMT -5
Well, using a side rail is the cheapest way to mount a scope on VZ 58 rifle, you also don´t lose ability to use iron sights. But height over bore is an issue. And how prolific it is? I would say very. Cause most of people in Czech Republic haven´t acces to range, when they can do "tactical" drills. Like shooting while on the move, or various positions, so they manily shoot from prone or sitting at bench and shooting for accuracy. Most inovative mount is this: www.sa58.cz/products/duralovy-kryt-zaveru-sa-vz-58-dostupne-v-cervenci/it´s whole new spring cover with rail, works great. Costs 400 dollars. I on the other hand have acces to "tactical" shooting range and I focus on other stuff than shooting prone for accuracy, so I run my iron sights, waiting for my rail on uper handguard to mount my red dot - still pretty good option for VZ I think.
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Horse
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Owner: RS Regulate
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Post by Horse on May 10, 2012 0:42:11 GMT -5
Nice. Looks a LOT like something I already have drawn in the computer. I guess it's a good idea then.
Thanks!
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tada
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Post by tada on May 10, 2012 6:29:47 GMT -5
It´s great idea, it gets rifle to a whole different level, but it took some time for this product to get on the market. All in all the spring cover of VZ rifle is pretty loose and it took some engineering to get it sit tight in place a keep optical sights right even after removing and mounting back...
I have feedback from those who use this rail system and they say it´s really good. Well, I´m quite sure it would not be such a problem to get this product to US, since it´s not considered a "gun part" by the Czech law - don´t know how it would be clasified by US law.
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tada
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Post by tada on May 10, 2012 10:43:22 GMT -5
Today I spoke with guys from GunExpert and they´ve told me, that theres no problem with shipping their Vz 58 products to united states...
So if you want spring cover with rail, it sure can be arranged, they accept paypal.
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Post by grendal1989 on May 11, 2012 23:07:51 GMT -5
one problem I see with the top cover rail is that it still sits an optic pretty high when the mount is factored in if you want to cowitness. Maybe with something like an Aimpoint Comp C3 that can have the mount go around an inset part of the body to get it lower. I would love for there to be something that could get VZ optics cowitnessing close to the face
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hwi
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Post by hwi on May 12, 2012 19:39:35 GMT -5
The easiest way to mount an optic would be if something like the Midwest Industries handguard or Ultimak gas tube fit the Vz.58, then you could throw a red dot on there. The Midwest Industries handguard could probably be made to fit, since it clamps to the barrel and doesn't need to be clamped to the receiver or the handguard retainer(if Vz.58s even have those). I have never handled a Vz.58 in person, so I can't be sure.
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Post by grendal1989 on May 12, 2012 19:51:05 GMT -5
The easiest way to mount an optic would be if something like the Midwest Industries handguard or Ultimak gas tube fit the Vz.58, then you could throw a red dot on there. The Midwest Industries handguard could probably be made to fit, since it clamps to the barrel and doesn't need to be clamped to the receiver or the handguard retainer(if Vz.58s even have those). I have never handled a Vz.58 in person, so I can't be sure. Mounts like this already exist, and they work very well(personal experience), for things like the Aimpoint T-1, but getting an optic closer to the shooter could move the balance point closer since heavier handguards are not needed.
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hwi
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Post by hwi on May 12, 2012 20:01:40 GMT -5
Mounts like this already exist, and they work very well(personal experience), for things like the Aimpoint T-1, but getting an optic closer to the shooter could move the balance point closer since heavier handguards are not needed. I didn't realize they had them for the vz.58. I can definitely see how something heavier than a microdot being on the handguard would be bad for balance. I am a fan of small optics, so I never much thought about it. Plus, coming from an AK having a side rail, I always had that option.
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