TQs

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Since we don't have a medical forum, I will just post this here.

Okay, since I have a few moments I would like to discuss TQs. I saw Protus post on a different thread that he carries four TQs on his load out. I believe panzer questioned why, in which Protus replied.

This got me thinking, how many TQs are too many?

I teach at my classes that each team member should carry at least two TQs that are rapidly available with either hand, in most any position they may find themselves. These two TQs need to be able to be deployed and placed with one hand. I prefer that they carry one on their CR and one on their BB if they use one. The reason for this if they have to ditch/cache their CR in a E&E situation (out of ammo or moving light and fast) they would still have one TQ with them.

There are many people that think the only time they will need to use the TQ is when they have an arterial bleed in an extremity. I teach that if in a firefight you should use a TQ if you take a round or sustain an injury to an extremity that is causing even moderate bleeding. The TQ should be quicker to deploy and place then an Izzy bandage. Get the TQ on, tighten it to stop the hemorrhage, and get back into the fight. Once the fight is over and you have a moment, then dress and bandage the wound appropriately. Obviously if the wound caught an artery, then the TQ may need to remain in place,

Now if TSHTF and I am at my retreat inside the wire, I will personally carry three TQs (my personal two plus one additional either for me or someone else). If I happen to be on a patrol with my team, then I will have at least three additional TQs with me. Now these two will usually be stored away in my enhanced FAK and my RAT-T in a cargo pocket.

The main thing is that you can get to and apply your TQ with one hand and not be moving your injured extremity. So many YouTubers show applying TQs with one hand and moving the other arm/leg (supposedly the injured arm/leg) like it has no injury. Now, in a real injury, you may be able to move the injured extremity but if the bullet has injured the neurovascular bundle or fractured a bone, you may not be able to move it. Therefore, when practicing your TQ placement, do so WITHOUT moving your “injured” extremity.

Which TQs do I use? My primary TQs are CATs. I have SOF-Ts, RAT-Ts and SWAT-Ts…plus the old type called cravats with a sturdy piece of wood if needed 8) Why the CATs, well I can apply them in most positions with my dominate and non-dominate hand on any extremity without moving the “injured” extremity. My RATs, SOF-Ts and SWAT-Ts are inside either IFAK, my enhanced FAK or cargo pocket to be used on others.

I have looked at (pictures and videos only) the SAVE TQs. www.savetourniquet.com
These are some newer TQs that have come out. They are expensive at about $46-48 each IIRC. But the cost, while it is important, is not my main problem with this TQ. The SAVE TQ has an upper extremity and lower extremity TQs. This would mean that you would have to carry a minimum of two. Which two do you pick? Two upper, lowers or one of each? So, to get the same coverage as having two CATs, I would have to buy two uppers and two lower SAVE TQs. This would run about $164 to cover all four of my extremities versus about $80 for CATs. Also, four TQs, two which are different then the other two, could cause a delay in getting the proper one for the extremity involved. These would also take up more real estate on your kit.

Just my two cents….YMMV

[winter]

Ug, I don't have any and I need them and some training on them. Last time I trained first aid, we were issued these only.



They usually tear at tourniquet tightness so we were supposed to use field expedients.

Man, I need modern medic classes bad.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Those are cravats/triangular bandages. With a stout windlass type of device they can be used, but require two hands. Get yourself a CAT from here, as you will be sure it is not a counterfeit. www.rescue-essentials.com/nar-combat-application-tourniquet-c-a-t-black-gen-7-1/ or learn what to look for and take your chances on eBay. The $30 is well spent.

[whitebear620]

I carry one CAT in my cargo pocket daily,along with some h&h gauze (I need to find a small bandage that I like, Israeli is just too big for this). I then carry at least one more on my chest rig, don't have a battle belt as chest rig goes on top of CCW set up for now, might change later.
I was a medic in the Guard, I wasn't taught all the fancy stuff with meds, but they drilled TQs into me. I prefer the CAT because it's what I have experience with,i have been eyeing the TK4 though.
A simple tip for those who might not know and have a problem with the Velcro catching on the CAT. If you have been blessed enough to be applying the TQ with both hands, cinch it down by grabbing the excess strap in one hand, windlass in the other, pull it tight! Works better than trying to lift the buckle and pull it tight.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

TK4s have been condemned by the DoD IIRC, due to lack of effectiveness.

[whitebear620]

Ah. Didn't know that and haven't gotten a chance to look into them yet. Guess I'll just add to the small amount of CATs the Guard donated to me.

[waffenmacht]

For those looking for an inexpensive but effective tourniquet that takes a minimal amount of training check out the Cav tourniquet. I have quite a few of these, and I am buying several for several kits and the cost adds up quick. www.cavalrymanufacturing.com/medical/TQ.html .

two pack for $28 www.onesourcetactical.com/cav-armstourniquet.aspx#.VlwtDNKrTcs

Here's a quick vid:

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Nov 30, 2015 6:04:08 GMT -5 waffenmacht said:

For those looking for an inexpensive but effective tourniquet that takes a minimal amount of training check out the Cav tourniquet. I have quite a few of these, and I am buying several for several kits and the cost adds up quick. www.cavalrymanufacturing.com/medical/TQ.html .

two pack for $28 www.onesourcetactical.com/cav-armstourniquet.aspx#.VlwtDNKrTcs

Here's a quick vid:

Just when I thought I have seen most TQs, I have not seen the CAV. The limitations he mentions about the "wrong" loop is a serious one from my perspective. Sure training/knowledge will help, but like the youtuber states, training is so important. Unfortunately, med training, especially TACMED scenario training, in all conditions, is low on most gun owner/prepper/AC/survivalists list of "things" to do.

waffenmacht thanks for the post

[panzer0170]

Personally I am a fan of the CAT. Can't comment on SOF-TT, RAT or any other animal based TQ products. It's rather biased because basically it's the only one I've ever used, but I am happy it does the job - It's stopped 2-3 people I know bleeding out after mine strikes, and that'll do me.

As for number? 2. Left arm, right arm. This is VERY much a holdover from Afg. based training.
1) They fit in the nice velcro flapped arm pouches, set up ready to deploy.
2) Anything low down is considered sacrificial in a mine strike.
3) Anything hard is considered shrapnel in a mine strike.

I reckon any more than 2 problems that need a TQ and I'm nackered regardless. I'll give you 3 offers more coverage, but then so does wearing pistol defeating body armour and I'm not going to wear that, either. If I went full warlord I might consider having a third in a BOK assuming I had room.

I don't think there are too many as a rule, but I wouldn't want to be hauling 4 around. I know it's only a little thing, but if I carry a backup of every little thing weight suddenly goes up. "Do more PT!" I hear you cry; Regardless of your/my/their/our fitness, with less weight we will always be faster. In a fight, it won't be much of a difference.

Over some actual distance, or on less/lower quality food than you have now? It's going to matter.

If I was just EDC with a firearm, I'd probably only have 1 on me. I might have another in a bag nearby, though. Medical and practical considerations need to be balanced to individual piece of mind.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

@panzer...I hear what you are saying. I would like further explanation on #2 though. I understand that a leg mine wound would be $hit and the leg would probably need to be sacrificed, but if you have massive hemorrhage why not stop it with a TQ so the life doesn't become sacrificial? Help me understand the philosophy of this.

I understand that with some massive complete amputations or near amps, you can get a constriction of the major vessels (vasoconstriction), but not always. And...even if the bleeding is controlled right at that moment with vasoconstriction, doesn't mean that the patients hemodynamic status won't change and the bleeding begin. I have always placed a TQ on a stump until they went to surgery.

Also, I understand your decision for two TQs, I think Protus carries more so he can save two for him and have 1-2 for other team members that need them. Sometimes it may be easier to reply one of yours then find the other guys TQ.

[panzer0170]

Regards number 2; I meant equipment is sacrificial. If I am carrying something low down it is likely to get damaged, thrown clear of me or otherwise ruined. Therefore there is no point carrying anything of inherent value there.

My legs are not sacrificial!

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

gotcha...yeah, any supplies in a cargo pocket with an IED device going off may be unusable. Thanks for the clarification panzer.

[whitebear620]

What pouches/setups do you guys use for carrying TQs on your gear?
I have rubber banded and used gear ties to attach them to MOLLE in the past, but I've heard that being open to the sun and other elements can cause them to greatly weaken over time.
One of the pouches I'm looking at is this:

www.amazon.com/NAR-C-A-T-Tourniquet-Pouch-COYOTE/dp/B00D8H07ZK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1457380517&sr=8-2&keywords=nar+tourniquet

I carry a TQ with gauze and bandage in my cargo pocket daily, so this would be just for adding a TQ to my chest rig.

[panzer0170]

Mar 7, 2016 14:59:19 GMT -5 whitebear620 said:

What pouches/setups do you guys use for carrying TQs on your gear?
I have rubber banded and used gear ties to attach them to MOLLE in the past, but I've heard that being open to the sun and other elements can cause them to greatly weaken over time.
One of the pouches I'm looking at is this:

www.amazon.com/NAR-C-A-T-Tourniquet-Pouch-COYOTE/dp/B00D8H07ZK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1457380517&sr=8-2&keywords=nar+tourniquet

I carry a TQ with gauze and bandage in my cargo pocket daily, so this would be just for adding a TQ to my chest rig.

Question; Is the chest rig to be used with 'whatever' or is it something specific you'll be wearing it with? From what I hear of the issues with the CAT it was specifically the plastic getting sun damaged and becoming brittle. If you can use something constructed with metal that should negate it, but I still don't like TQ's being external. Smoke grenade pouches double nicely to carry a TWO and an israeli dressing, and are nice and easy to get into whilst providing some protection & security. There was also a fantastic idea to use a BFG 10 speed baton pouch on the beltline, if that's an option for you (if it's there all the time, no need to 'add' one when the chest rig goes on?)

[whitebear620]

My chest rig will be going on top of daily EDC clothing/gear, most likely use for me is under a button up shirt after/during a local disaster (hurricane, riots). So I guess it's not so much that I NEED a pouch for it, just that it calms my mind to have it secured and protected during training and should I have to wear it exposed for prolonged periods outside.