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Post by eddiewouldclearhot on Jul 28, 2015 18:42:23 GMT -5
Not sold on Calf for a TQ for what these were DESIGNED for (IE big army, fighting against IED wankers) because chances are you'll lose the TQ when you loose the better part of your lower leg. THAT SAID, I can see how it would be potentially useful for AC, but I still think the shoulder is the best place, one either side. . well sounds good and all till you lose both arms. we roll with one in an arm pocket, one on the calf.
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Post by panzer0170 on Jul 29, 2015 10:55:03 GMT -5
Not sold on Calf for a TQ for what these were DESIGNED for (IE big army, fighting against IED wankers) because chances are you'll lose the TQ when you loose the better part of your lower leg. THAT SAID, I can see how it would be potentially useful for AC, but I still think the shoulder is the best place, one either side. . well sounds good and all till you lose both arms. we roll with one in an arm pocket, one on the calf. But then you can't self treat anyway I think it boils down to different experiences between our countries - The only time I know of a guy losing both his arms is when, by some stroke of bad luck, his side plates came out in an IED blast and severed his arms. Other than that it has been predominantly Arm/Leg or Leg/Leg. In addition to that all your mates have got med gear and the medic is carrying an ambulance worth of gear to keep you in the fight. I can almost understand thigh leg pocket (that bit is usually left, even if you lose from the knee down...) But I'm not sold on Calf. Never tried it though. Could be the next best thing!
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Post by omnivorous on Jul 29, 2015 12:17:44 GMT -5
*Random, side-tracking, thread-derailing thought* IED threats would be a hell of thing in a protracted WROL scenario.
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Post by UnforseenWeather on Jul 29, 2015 13:23:00 GMT -5
*Random, side-tracking, thread-derailing thought* IED threats would be a hell of thing in a protracted WROL scenario. For which side?
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Post by panzer0170 on Jul 29, 2015 15:05:37 GMT -5
The one standing in blast radius of the aforementioned
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Post by Erick on Jul 29, 2015 17:42:02 GMT -5
*Random, side-tracking, thread-derailing thought* IED threats would be a hell of thing in a protracted WROL scenario. Unless the WROL scenario is regime vs the people I dont think we will see many IEDs in a US WROL. Why? In Iraq they had lots of caches of material from Saddams Army enough to last them for years of IED making.. and when those ran low the Iranians stepped in. And unless there is an insurgency not many places would spend all the time/effort/resources on making them w/o an occupying Army to fight.
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Dave R
Junior Member
Posts: 460
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Post by Dave R on Jul 29, 2015 20:33:59 GMT -5
Hell, any Boobytrap for that matter. I shutter to think about punji pits or tension bearing traps.
As for the new pattern, it does have a hint of OSW in its own way which I'm a fan off. It looks like Velcro company is going to take a hit in their profits now haha.
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Post by justanothergunnut on Jul 29, 2015 22:19:12 GMT -5
*Random, side-tracking, thread-derailing thought* IED threats would be a hell of thing in a protracted WROL scenario. Unless the WROL scenario is regime vs the people I dont think we will see many IEDs in a US WROL. Why? In Iraq they had lots of caches of material from Saddams Army enough to last them for years of IED making.. and when those ran low the Iranians stepped in. And unless there is an insurgency not many places would spend all the time/effort/resources on making them w/o an occupying Army to fight. An ied is an ied.. you don't need a 155mm rnd or a bunch of 60mm mortor rnds.. an ied can be as simple as a black powder fueled fugas fired electronicly..
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Post by omnivorous on Jul 30, 2015 2:53:59 GMT -5
Hell, tomorrow I could drive 15 minutes down the road, and buy some tannerite from a chain store...
and didn't the Boston bombers use the powder out of fireworks?
Although highly illegal for those unlicensed to do so, bomb making is not terribly difficult.
Anyway, OCP2, I wonder how the people of Detroit feel about it.
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Post by panzer0170 on Jul 30, 2015 4:13:01 GMT -5
*Random, side-tracking, thread-derailing thought* IED threats would be a hell of thing in a protracted WROL scenario. Unless the WROL scenario is regime vs the people I dont think we will see many IEDs in a US WROL. Why? In Iraq they had lots of caches of material from Saddams Army enough to last them for years of IED making.. and when those ran low the Iranians stepped in. And unless there is an insurgency not many places would spend all the time/effort/resources on making them w/o an occupying Army to fight. I refer the honourable gentleman to the 40 year IED insurgency in NI before 'IED' was made into a buzzword and we called them pipe bombs. There were some Semtex etc based devices, but a big majority was honemade, and if you look at early bomb making signature in Iraq/Afghanistan there is a LOT of NI influence in the bomb making process. The reason IEDs became so effective so quickly was because they had guys who had done it professionally for years showing them where NOT to fuck up. As is rightly pointed out: Black Powder = IED. Low yield high shrapnel devices that are victim operated would be devastating as part of a defense plan. Especially in Urban Areas. EF Isn't the Govt then they won't be mouseholing, which means you can use traps/IEDs for some serious route denial.
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protus
Junior Member
Posts: 323
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Post by protus on Jul 30, 2015 10:07:59 GMT -5
Even the simple thought of one aka dud/fake can funnel...slow..deter forces in an area...
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Post by Erick on Jul 30, 2015 17:54:50 GMT -5
Fellas, yeah sure NI etc but then and now something that is most effective against an occupying force.
We've been so busy playing paramilitary police force that occupies a people manning checkpoints etc that we forget preppers are the oppsoite of that. Is it something that could happen?
Sure.... but the PRIMARY utility of IED is against occupying forces, such as US in VN, GB in NI or US in Iraq, Afg. etc etc.
As a prepper do you really think communities in the absence of an occupation force will spend the time energy and resources on making IEDs???
They will be busier trying to survive. ( the occasional firefight with another town notwithstanding)
Life and operations are a matter of balancing risks with benefits. We now think about IED's as part and parcel of everything, because we are now conditioned by a generation of occupations to associate that with any operation.. But a WROL situation is not the same thing!
If someone wants to stop a vehicle in WROL he is much more likely to use checkpoints or caltrops or whatever. Pungi sticks in someones driveway?
Sure. But the more resource consuming production of IED is a much lesser risk in WROL than trying to occupy a largely grid-up and equipped people .
The thing is to look at things in a nuanced way and not just try to squeeze the most recent experience into the new situation
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Dave R
Junior Member
Posts: 460
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Post by Dave R on Jul 30, 2015 19:06:58 GMT -5
This is why uwgear is the only forum I go to. Only here can a review about a new camo pattern turns into a discussion about IEDs in WROL.
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Post by DeadeyeD on Jul 30, 2015 19:09:28 GMT -5
In "WROL without regime", if IED's are used, they will be used to cover deadspace areas ot gaps on a secure perimeter for the most part. The only other thing I could envision (not saying I would do this, it is too indiscriminate) would be to use them protect an area that is infrequently checked, but the need to protect it is still there.
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Post by justanothergunnut on Aug 1, 2015 17:59:18 GMT -5
Depending on how bad the WROL situation is and the technical abilities of the enemy be they gangs or some other rival group I would be concerned about IED's but not fixated on the threat unless of course they started to be used. I would not wan't to pursue a group in a urban environment down their rat line if I even suspected that they had the ability to place IED's. What about the rural recon scenario? you are tracking a small group of possible bad guys in your AO and they are more skilled than you gave them credit for. They double back on their own tracks or leave a one or two man recon/anti tracking team behind.. They may use IEd's!! It would seriously ruin your day to follow a track only to be led into a IR triggered homemade claymore...Super rare and not a very high probability I know.. But still just because its illegal doesn't mean some zombie isn't planning to do it..
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