Additional testing done on the GT 56gr FMJBT. READ!

[Erick]

I made a separate thread about todays test results so do not get lost.

The results were not quite as perfect as last weekends:

-the good:

Fired the extended FP into 60 rds of normal primer ammo, 20 rds of brass case ammo (I think is PMC but will have to ask my buddy who supplied it.)  20 rds of Wolf MC, 20 rds of BrownBear.  Both of the 2 steel ammos are made at Barnaul and are know for non problematic ( and there soft) primers in AR ammo.

None of those 60 rds showed any signs or primer piercing at all (pics going t be emailed to me soon)

So it is clear there seems no issue in using this particular Firing Pin in ammo w/ softer primers so no need to switch FPs between Ammo which I think is important to many of us.

- More Golden Tiger testing today:

During the course of todays testing I installed Wolff springs in 2 rifles. I had been hoping for 100% function w/ only the enhanced FP (like I had last weekend albeit on a smaller sample size) but it was not to be.

a) Fired about 60 rounds with a Seekins Precision AR equipped with w/ JP Enterprises Trigger with enhanced Xtreme AR FP added:

All 60 rounds functioned w/o problem (attributable to ammo that is.. got  a couple double feeds due to old USGI mags which are now thrown away). All 60 rds  functioned with consistent and good ejection patterns too

b) Fired 60 rds out of a Smith and Wesson MP15 with enhanced firing pin but no Springs; 2 failures to fire attributed  to light primer strikes. 

c) Fired another 60 rds out of a SIG516 with only the enhanced firing pin installed, 1 failure to fire due to non ignition

d) Fired another 90 rds out of the Smith MP15 with both enhanced FP and Wolff Spring got 1 failures.

d) Fired 120 rounds of GT out of SIG 516 with both the enhanced FP and the Wolff Spring installed.. Expected zero ignition problem but did get 1 failure to fire.


So in summary for todays data: 

Fired a total of 350 rds of Golden Tiger out of rifles with enhanced firing pin. Got a total of 5 failure to fires. 3 of which were in the minority of rounds fire when the rifles did not have the Wolff hammer Spring installed.

The failures when the Wolff spring was in there to back up the enhanced firing pin..  tho very very few (2) ,  worry me a bit ...because I expected 0, like I got last weekend.
Many ARs chambered in 5.45mm exist which are hard primers and this same XP spring by itself (different bolt though) is used there with 100% effectiveness.

I was using GT ammo out of a different case not sure if there are different batches involved .

Based on report of some being able to fire 50% of rounds w/o any mods and some being able to fire 100% of round w/o any mods to the AR (tho those were clearly exceptions) I was expecting 100% ignition just with the FP alone.

So all data from last weekend and this one combined reads:

440 rds toal of GT fire with enhanced FP (with and w/o springs) 5 rounds failed to fire.
NO stuck cases in all fires.

One failure to fire round w/ Wolff spring may be a fluke.. .
1 failure is a fluke. 2 failure is a trend.
I have 5 more of these firing pins coming but maybe I could try a different brand?

The reliability clearly seems to be linked mostly to firing pin.

For many this data of 2 FTF w/ spring may make this ammo not suitable for SHTF use.

Even tough I HAVE seen more than once even the almost 40-cents-a-round expensive Federal 5.56 mm  have FTFs before at ranges.

Also some many argue in SHTF having 2000 rds for the price of 1000 may still be worth it especially since thise FTF are a very easy clear and still quite rare to boot). YMMV.

I would like it if a member here did his testing with a different ban of enhanced FP.
Though we cannot fault the FP w/o any more date.

I read  a report of a guy who said he used this Firing Pin below and had 100% function w/ this ammo without even a spring installation. (but he dint indicate how many rounds he tested could have just been 30...)

shop.redxarms.com/ENHANCED-FIRING-PIN-FOR-762-X-39-AND-545-X-39-BCGS-EFIRINGPIN.htm

Also I do like lighter triggers.
So I may accept the reduced reliability of a rifle with only the firing pin installed to enjoy my softer triggers.

[panzer0170]

If nothing else, this is perfect training ammo. It is going to introduce random malfunction where you don't expect it. Same with the mags, especially if it is not a consistent thing.

People practise reloads till the cows come home, because you're out of the fight.

If every couple of mags you're forced to clear a malfunction, you are going to get better at it.

One thing I haven't seen much anywhere is the use of drill rounds bombed into magazines with live, to be used in live fire training. This is that concept taken one step further, by taking a weakness of a product and making it a strength

Just a thought.

[Erick]

I dont know yet if I would go quite as far as that...
Still it was not what I had liked to see or expected given last weekends perfect score.

... I think its probably still useful in a resource constrained SHTF scenario. or in training.... I
 Much better than running out of Ammo completely in SHTF because you paid double...

Also the other strong points of the ammo are untouched.

Accuracy: Most report good accuracy
Resilience to storage/caching to it to its construction

I am curious what others have found when the round count goes up.. floki?

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Erick said: "Also some many argue in SHTF having 2000 rds for the price of 1000 may still be worth it especially since thise FTF are a very easy clear and still quite rare to boot). YMMV."

Agree Erick, and even if it is only 10 FTF per 1000, or 1%, that is still 1980 rounds for the price of 1000 (which "name brand", by the way, doesn't guarantee you 100% effectiveness)

Agree with panzer...even if you only use this for training, you will have still saved money and you get the occasional FTF drill.

[Erick]

-Sometimes I feel the heavy hammer spring may add some resistance to the lockback resulting in failures to feed in some rifles with marginal ignition. Might consider lighter buffer springs for select rifles.


-Fired 200 rds through my LWRC today using Lancer , Troy, MSAR and H&K Mags.
Zero failures of any kind..... that is now 300 + rds though that rifle with no failures of any kind with ths golden tiger ammo.

Fired another 120 though thru 2 other rifles that did only have a firing pin upgrade had 3 failures to fire total but also some feed issues that I suspect may be due to marginal ignition in the absence of spring uprgade.

So in summary it seems that the combination of Firing pin upgrade and spring upgrade produces near 100% reliability in most rifles.

I found another another thing also:

When comparing the Xtreme precision firing pin (of which I now have a bunch) with the RedXarms upgraded FP, I noticed the RedX was much more aggressive in adding length.

But even more interesting when comparing I pushed them thru different bolts and noticed different bolts produce different degree of protrusion due to varing lenght between bolts (!)

That means production variances between bolts exist enough to affect firing pin protrusion and impact their ability to protrude thru the face of the bolt.


I am aware of one rifle having had 2 failures among 120 rds and weird ejection patterns when firing with either just spring upgrade or spring + hammer...I might look for the bolt being a culprit here ...

Anyhow... it seems the ammo while not perfect in all rifles is suitable for reliable use in almost every rifle when adding hammer and firing pin upgrades...

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Thanks Erick...awaiting my springs to go along with my FP's...then range time

[Erick]

Both springs and FP will work .
Check your bolt.. there are some bolts that have production variances that make the FP protrude less out of the bolt face into the primer.
In rifles that have such (lets call them) "variant " bolts a bolt exchange may be needed.

But this is rare and you should be fine.
A couple of my rifles were almot, not quite but almost, good with just the FP.

Though visual comparison makes me think the RedX arms FP might be the better candidate for a FP only attempt

[trailrunner909]

Ran 120 rounds through 14.5" middy with lmt bolt, xp spring and fp. No issues. Didn't test it for accuracy but it seemed on par with wolf gold m193, same poi as well.

[Erick]

Sept 26, 2016 21:16:34 GMT -5 trailrunner909 said:

Ran 120 rounds through 14.5" middy with lmt bolt, xp spring and fp. No issues. Didn't test it for accuracy but it seemed on par with wolf gold m193, same poi as well.

Great!!