|
|
Post by panzer0170 on Jun 11, 2015 16:34:38 GMT -5
Max Velocity's thoughts on CQB.I read this recently. I would definitely pay this bloke money. So many valid points made. This is the method he's suggesting for blokes w/o grenades etc (which is demo'd in the video of what sounds and looks like Scot's Guards doing CQB in Afghan) that guys WITH grenades are using... because it still works if you run out of fucking grenades. For those of you who haven't clocked this, it's a good read, and probably MORE relatable for the majority of people than FIWAF/European Warfare NATO style tactics classes. You guys are lucky that there are blokes your way teaching this shit to civvies. Jammy buggers.
|
|
|
|
Post by Erick on Jun 12, 2015 6:21:46 GMT -5
I also thought it was a fantastic article.
ironically when I cross posted it on some forums to the great unwashed it was like throwing pearls to the swine, with few folks fully comprehending it and others making completely asinine and unqualified criticisms
PS: Love your thread title.
|
|
protus
Junior Member
Posts: 323 
|
Post by protus on Jun 12, 2015 7:08:13 GMT -5
Very good post.!!!!! But not operator dynamicaly operating operations enough for most.... In my simple mind....no boom means I'm not charging in like Rambo ..  |
|
|
|
Post by riflemaniv on Jun 12, 2015 7:36:50 GMT -5
I have paid this bloke money and will again in the future. Really top notch training. As a civilian I especially liked the crawl-walk-run method of training.
|
|
|
|
Post by panzer0170 on Jun 12, 2015 11:48:21 GMT -5
I've not met him, but I've worked with his pedigree and other folk from his and similar backgrounds. Given how well he can explain what he is trying to get across with 2D pictures and some text, I bet he's a fucking JOY to listen to and learn from in person.
|
|
winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
|
Post by winter on Jun 12, 2015 14:13:54 GMT -5
Interesting read.
Flooding the room, even without flashbangs and frags, also protects the team from being engaged through the walls and pinned down. Just because you have no grenades does not mean those in the building do not, so being stacked at the door makes you an excellent target.
Why, in this WROL environment, are you without a grenade or explosive?
Some things to think about. I'm always the skeptic.
Max is pretty sharp, but please remember his method has not been proven on a 2 way range.
|
|
|
|
Post by panzer0170 on Jun 12, 2015 15:57:51 GMT -5
Interesting read. Flooding the room, even without flashbangs and frags, also protects the team from being engaged through the walls and pinned down. Just because you have no grenades does not mean those in the building do not, so being stacked at the door makes you an excellent target. Why, in this WROL environment, are you without a grenade or explosive? Some things to think about. I'm always the skeptic. Max is pretty sharp, but please remember his method has not been proven on a 2 way range. Winter, I do like a skeptic. And you make some valid points. Why are you without grenades or explosives? My response to that would be the question; Where are the nearest grenades you have access to (excluding those of you with keys to military bases and armouries, it's cheating!!! You might never make it to them. What if you have to clear rooms to GET to those grenades, and a thousand other reasons they don't count. What about when you run out of them. Are you going to carry grenades or food when raiding somewhere? I'm taking food....) Secondly; His method HAS been proven on a 2 way range. What he is suggesting, and what the video at the end of that link shows, is what the British have been doing for most of a decade. You can't frag every room you go into. This has been proven when conventional US forces went in to save a hostage and cleared rooms how they were taught to clear rooms; frag & clear. They fragged the room the hostage was in. They also lost a bloke in the process. Mission not achieved AND a casualty. Not the best of outcomes. Realistically I think MOST people won't have access to grenades or explosives, and it's much easier to add them to TTPs than it is to use them as the 'norm' and then have to think on your feet backwards. You make a potentially valid point about flooding the room, but the counter argument is that against a defended position you're just giving the enemy who is in cover a variety of targets. At best this means they don't shoot you first. |
|
winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
|
Post by winter on Jun 12, 2015 16:30:38 GMT -5
On your first point Panzer, making explosives is easier than making biscuits (your kind or ours). A flash bang is as easy as black powder and powdered aluminum and/or magnesium. Familiarize yourself with explosive components, materials, and techniques.
(Do not make these, it is illegal kids.)
Second point, my mistake.
Your last point I agree with, but, you had best be able to do either or and change it at a moments notice. If they are in a defended position and they notice you in the hall, they are gonna open fire on the wall your team is behind. Personally, I like the Air Force's technique for securing a building; a 3 year lease with an option to buy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Erick on Jun 12, 2015 16:37:28 GMT -5
Max is pretty sharp, but please remember his method has not been proven on a 2 way range. It has . This is the method most .mils are moving to |
|
|
|
Post by panzer0170 on Jun 12, 2015 16:51:40 GMT -5
On your first point Panzer, making explosives is easier than making biscuits (your kind or ours). A flash bang is as easy as black powder and powdered aluminum and/or magnesium. Familiarize yourself with explosive components, materials, and techniques. (Do not make these, it is illegal kids.) Second point, my mistake. Your last point I agree with, but, you had best be able to do either or and change it at a moments notice. If they are in a defended position and they notice you in the hall, they are gonna open fire on the wall your team is behind. Personally, I like the Air Force's technique for securing a building; a 3 year lease with an option to buy. Well. The first one depends. There are a lot of bomb makers out there... GOOD ones, that have killed hundreds of coalition troops, or if we leave the Middle East BRITISH troops (NI) that are missing bits and pieces, or dead. As you say; Don't make them it's illegal. But the first time you make them is going to be all hell dangerous, especially if you're making anything with any actual power. I've worked with PE4, detcord and all the fancy made stuff. It's invincible and we've done the old 'use it to cook demo'. Ammonia based stuff, or anything HIGH (black powder being LOW) explosive that's homebrew? That shit is SKETCHY unless you're a competent chemist (Not to say you have degrees, but at least EXPERIENCE). And yes; Everyone should have has many tools as possible. Teaching a grenade toss is a damned sight easier than teaching a room clearance. Most people have a decent throw, inside of 20ft, even with their off hand. Totally agree on your FINAL point, mind you; That, or their OTHER way of securing it, involving whatever air asset is around, and a minimum of 500lbs of fun. Unfortunately I know now that I will never get the joy of that outside of a very specific professional environment....  |
|
winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
|
Post by winter on Jun 12, 2015 17:14:54 GMT -5
Right, I was talking about expedient explosives for urban CQB. Shaped charges and shit is a different thread.
Another expedient option for clearing buildings is chemical weapons and irritants. Ammonium chloride, being extremely easy, is as simple as a water balloon of bleach inside a glass bottle of ammonia. They will leave the room soon or not at all. CS sprays are readily available. Insect control foggers will do the trick as well.
(making chemical weapons is also illegal)
|
|
