John Mosby's " The Reluctant Partisan" Pt Duex

[Diz]

I wanted to start another thread on this, because I think we got out in the weeds on the other one, so let's reboot here.

After reading the "E" book, and then the hard copy, I am now busy trying to apply what I've read to my own retreat security SOP. The real gem here is the lesson outlines, and training methodology that Mosby brings to the table. You may not agree with everything he says, or even think he covers everything sufficiently, but it's as good a starting point as you're going to find.

Just to re-cap, the book covers your mission, PT, Combatives, BRM/ARM, Individual movement, Team movement, Patrolling, Combat Casualty Care, E&E, Defensive Measures, and TLS/OpOrd, with appendices on LBE, AR-15, Tips of the Trade, and his POI for Rifle Training and Security Patrolling.

I want to add some additional comments here that either amplify or add to what he's had to say. My only real gripe is that the material on individual movement, team movement and patrolling is formatted differently than what I'd do. So I will endeavor to share with you here a different way of presenting it, FWIW. I will also build on that to include more detail on the organization and training of the 4-man team, as well as more on the actual defense of your home or retreat.

[panzer0170]

I want to throw a random thought out that I've had over the last few days;

Should any of us, who are planning for long term UW, rather than short term stuff (katrina, other natural disasters) be using anything with batteries at all?

I'm talking GPS, NVGs, torches, WATCHES (potentially, depending on your watch type...) etc.

Whilst I can't, in the slightest, devalue the merit of these things (NVGs for example are a complete game changer in a lot of scenarios...) We may find we end up using them as a crutch, right up until the point where they run out. What do we do then? I think, personally, that we should be training methods of doing things WITHOUT electronics, in the majority.

Specifically I think this came up from the 'Is your rifle set up for the task at hand' and people talking about weapon lights, IR pointers etc.' I'd also probably include smoke, flares, and anything that you don't hold in MASSIVE quantities (ammo probably being the exception) because you're not going to have them for long.

Just a thought. I figure it's of more value in here.

Discuss.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Nov 20, 2014 11:33:49 GMT -5 panzer0170 said:

I want to throw a random thought out that I've had over the last few days;

Should any of us, who are planning for long term UW, rather than short term stuff (katrina, other natural disasters) be using anything with batteries at all?

I'm talking GPS, NVGs, torches, WATCHES (potentially, depending on your watch type...) etc.

Whilst I can't, in the slightest, devalue the merit of these things (NVGs for example are a complete game changer in a lot of scenarios...) We may find we end up using them as a crutch, right up until the point where they run out. What do we do then? I think, personally, that we should be training methods of doing things WITHOUT electronics, in the majority.

Specifically I think this came up from the 'Is your rifle set up for the task at hand' and people talking about weapon lights, IR pointers etc.' I'd also probably include smoke, flares, and anything that you don't hold in MASSIVE quantities (ammo probably being the exception) because you're not going to have them for long.

Just a thought. I figure it's of more value in here.

Discuss.

The thing with batteries for me is that it is a force multiplier. Having those things that you mentioned above will be helpful to survival. Therefor, I have a small solar setup that will allow me to charge batteries. I have several low self discharge rechargeable batteries in the various sizes I need for my key gear.

Without batteries to run even a torch (or flashlight) you will be using flame. So essentially you move back several centuries in time. It is easy to set up a small solar system to keep a few batteries, car batteries if nothing else, charged. If you have several backups, you can rotate without down time.

[panzer0170]

Nov 20, 2014 13:05:36 GMT -5 Patriotic Sheepdog said:

Nov 20, 2014 11:33:49 GMT -5 panzer0170 said:

I want to throw a random thought out that I've had over the last few days;

Should any of us, who are planning for long term UW, rather than short term stuff (katrina, other natural disasters) be using anything with batteries at all?

I'm talking GPS, NVGs, torches, WATCHES (potentially, depending on your watch type...) etc.

Whilst I can't, in the slightest, devalue the merit of these things (NVGs for example are a complete game changer in a lot of scenarios...) We may find we end up using them as a crutch, right up until the point where they run out. What do we do then? I think, personally, that we should be training methods of doing things WITHOUT electronics, in the majority.

Specifically I think this came up from the 'Is your rifle set up for the task at hand' and people talking about weapon lights, IR pointers etc.' I'd also probably include smoke, flares, and anything that you don't hold in MASSIVE quantities (ammo probably being the exception) because you're not going to have them for long.

Just a thought. I figure it's of more value in here.

Discuss.

The thing with batteries for me is that it is a force multiplier. Having those things that you mentioned above will be helpful to survival. Therefor, I have a small solar setup that will allow me to charge batteries. I have several low self discharge rechargeable batteries in the various sizes I need for my key gear.

Without batteries to run even a torch (or flashlight) you will be using flame. So essentially you move back several centuries in time. It is easy to set up a small solar system to keep a few batteries, car batteries if nothing else, charged. If you have several backups, you can rotate without down time.

I agree - In the short term. But can you fix a solar panel? How many charges (with REGULAR USE, not the spotty use they get normally) will they last, and how long is that in real time? My point refers more to the kind of thing where you're looking at 1-2 years+. I don't disagree that things like torches, nvgs etc are force multipliers, and in the early days of any issues, they're definitely something I'd want. But if you're training with them all the time, are you training without them?

I'm not saying ditch it all (and, for example, if nothing goes wrong but you want to defend your home in a WITH ROL situation, I would ALWAYS want a light. My thinking is more of a 'who's adapted their TTPs to essentially using a naked rifle, and no visual aids whatsoever?' Personally, I've only ever used NVGs a handful of times, and while they've been useful, we've done just fine without, on all but the darkest (cloud cover, or mostly waned moon..) of nights, and even then it worked, it just worked SLOWER. I would say you wouldn't use flame, you'd just have to use your daylight hours better, for all but the most essential tasks.

I honestly beleive if everything goes wrong, we WILL go back a couple of centuries - There are countries NOW that are living a century or so behind us in the most part (Look at some of the slums in poor countries. Sure, their clothes are modern... but they're shitting in holes in the ground, and they're cooking meat on a fire in a shack. They aren't using water to wash, because they haven't really even got enough to drink. Unless you are TOTALLY off grid, and can repair and maintain that indefinitely... you ARE going to revert... maybe not hundreds of years, but DEFINITELY 3+ decades.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Nov 20, 2014 16:46:53 GMT -5 panzer0170 said:

Nov 20, 2014 13:05:36 GMT -5 Patriotic Sheepdog said:

The thing with batteries for me is that it is a force multiplier. Having those things that you mentioned above will be helpful to survival. Therefor, I have a small solar setup that will allow me to charge batteries. I have several low self discharge rechargeable batteries in the various sizes I need for my key gear.

Without batteries to run even a torch (or flashlight) you will be using flame. So essentially you move back several centuries in time. It is easy to set up a small solar system to keep a few batteries, car batteries if nothing else, charged. If you have several backups, you can rotate without down time.

I agree - In the short term. But can you fix a solar panel? How many charges (with REGULAR USE, not the spotty use they get normally) will they last, and how long is that in real time? My point refers more to the kind of thing where you're looking at 1-2 years+. I don't disagree that things like torches, nvgs etc are force multipliers, and in the early days of any issues, they're definitely something I'd want. But if you're training with them all the time, are you training without them?

I'm not saying ditch it all (and, for example, if nothing goes wrong but you want to defend your home in a WITH ROL situation, I would ALWAYS want a light. My thinking is more of a 'who's adapted their TTPs to essentially using a naked rifle, and no visual aids whatsoever?' Personally, I've only ever used NVGs a handful of times, and while they've been useful, we've done just fine without, on all but the darkest (cloud cover, or mostly waned moon..) of nights, and even then it worked, it just worked SLOWER. I would say you wouldn't use flame, you'd just have to use your daylight hours better, for all but the most essential tasks.

I honestly beleive if everything goes wrong, we WILL go back a couple of centuries - There are countries NOW that are living a century or so behind us in the most part (Look at some of the slums in poor countries. Sure, their clothes are modern... but they're shitting in holes in the ground, and they're cooking meat on a fire in a shack. They aren't using water to wash, because they haven't really even got enough to drink. Unless you are TOTALLY off grid, and can repair and maintain that indefinitely... you ARE going to revert... maybe not hundreds of years, but DEFINITELY 3+ decades.

Decent solar panels can last 15-20 years. Crappy ones would last half that and really good ones can last 25-30 years. Yes, the output may deteriorate over time, but it would still produce unless catastrophic failure, and then that may be only one panel and the rest would likely still function. Having a small genny could help charge batteries as well, until the fuel runs out. That is unless you have a set up where you could siphon fuel from vehicles and service station tanks...fuel pump mounted to a board with cable to attach to a battery and a long hose to drop into an underground tank. Sure a genny has a noise signature so be careful with OPSEC.

Or you can charge batteries with fire. Look at this www.pointsourcepower.com/products.html

Point is, there are ways to try, and I know try doesn't mean always work, to have batteries for our "gadgets". Having multiple ways to do so is important....you know the saying "two is one and one is none".

Absolutely we all need to train with and without things and we should be doing that with everything.

[panzer0170]

Oh, you're talking roof mounted. For some reason I had it in my head you meant the kind of thing you leave outside your bag for portable use. That makes a fair wedge more sense. An interesting link to that gadget - Definitely a good concept, assuming it's reasonably rugged

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Nov 21, 2014 8:20:05 GMT -5 panzer0170 said:

Oh, you're talking roof mounted. For some reason I had it in my head you meant the kind of thing you leave outside your bag for portable use. That makes a fair wedge more sense. An interesting link to that gadget - Definitely a good concept, assuming it's reasonably rugged

There are some portable ones that I would trust as well. I'm looking at this company as they have several different types.
www.goalzero.com

[panzer0170]

I must add this to demonstrate my mindset (and perhaps lack of forethought for OTHER personal scenarios...); It rains basically 50% of the year, here. (actual statistic) it FEELS like it's grey and covered in cloud 90%. Solar power is... spotty at best, here. The more I think about it the US is massively better suited (on the whole) to solar as a means of power.

Have you had any experience with the kit you've linked me PS? I've seen some of the portable stuff (though not from this company) before and I've been less than impressed with how rugged it is. It did the job of charging BLOODY WELL... But it was pretty flimsy and easy to break

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Yeah, the grey skies don't help solar.

I've never tried Goal Zero, but have heard good things about them.

[panzer0170]

I definitely like the look of some of the bigger stuff for a trailer/tent situation - Perhaps not for prep stuff, but definitely good for long distance outdoor camping/road trip type situation. Especially like that it isn't JUST solar, and that it'll charge from 12v and mains too - If needs be you could cannibalise old car batteries to charge it....

[Diz]

On this batteries thing, I think you should maximize technology as long as you can. Your assumption is that things will default to grid-down scenario. There is much ground to cover before or even if we get there. I've heard this argument before, and it has merit, but again, it pre-supposes the grid will eventually fail.

There are many scenarios which you CAN cover with the 10 year+ shelf life of good batts, especially the new lithium ones. And then, if the grid does fail, they give you a segue into learning to do without them. So why just throw them out entirely when you can leverage them to the max before disposal?

Now that being said, I'm a HUGE fan of learning "primitive" techniques, which don't depend on batts, just in case we get all the way down there. But I still don't see that as any reason to do without them as long as they work.

Right now, I am set up with RDS, IR laser, white and IR light on my rifle. My helmet has a -14 on it. That's 3 x AA batts, and 1 x 123. I've stocked up enough of those to last 10 years or more. If and when batts are no loner available, I will revert back to iron sights and Mk 1 Mod 0 eyeball. I can fight either way, but these things I have right now are definitely force-multipliers. Why not use them as long as possible.

For more mundane chores, solar cell set-ups will definitely extend the time we have power, especially with re-chargeable, deep-cycle batteries.

Bottom line, I don't think anyone is totally prepared to go "off-grid" and adopt the old ways tomorrow. Batteries will allow us to transition into the old ways, instead of an instant cut-off.

[panzer0170]

Diz: It's fine, assuming you have the finances for everything. I suppose it ties back to the whole priorities thing again. It's not just equipment cost, but also equipment maintenance (which, for electronics, includes power) that you have to look at. If you can afford it, then go for it. But I think of batteries and (here, certainly) for a decent set of batteries that'll last a long time you're looking at a HEFTY cost.

Again, buying in bulk will help, and I don't have any figures, that's why I'm asking - How much would that COST, to get a baseline that'd last say... 5 years?

There are some thing that I'm trying to factor into my planning for the future that I can't quantify (some things are RIDICULOUSLY more expensive, or cheaper, over here, and there isn't a trend, really, other than electronics costing the same but they change the $ for a £...).

When I think that this is stuff that I'd want on top of food, protection, some form if sustaining food production when the stored stuff runs out etc.... It just seems that finances would work well elsewhere, and perhaps this is something to consider later down the line.

I'm just trying to make heads and tails of it all, and work out what MY priorities are, based on what other peoples are.

[Diz]

Good point. Technology is expensive. I've worked for over 40 years so I can afford it. Some can't. I get that. But you can fight without it. In fact, Mosby prefers simple white light for home self-defense, which should tell you something right there.

The point being, don't throw tech out, just because you think it might be taken away at some point. Use it to the max until then. But, know how to fight without it.

Simple exercise. Throw your main breaker for the weekend. Note how that effects everything (you'd be surprised at the little stuff you miss). Go out and get the stuff you need to live without power. It's not THAT hard. Well at least for an old geezer like myself. Sometimes I even enjoy doing things like shaving by lantern light.

Right now the most important thing you can do is educate yourself. Learn the skills you need to survive. All the doo-dads will come your way later, one way or another.

[Diz]

Back to the OP, I wanted to expand a bit more on Mosby's book. First of all, your estimate of the situation. As recent events have shown, when the natives get restless, you are well and truly on your own. Do not expect anyone to come to your rescue. As these dress rehearsals have shown, you can expect to be on your own for at least 24-48 hours. While all this talk about grid down scenarios is fine, look at the current sit and learn from it. Notice how fire comes into play. Are you prepared for that? These little temporary events will probably continue to occur more frequently leading up to a possible full-scale state of emergency, nation-wide.

My focus is now on these near-term events, as they might effect me at home, right now. With that in mind, my training, weapons, and equipment are being set up to handle them. If you live in or near an urban area, you would might consider this as well. At any rate, think hard on your particular sit and see what you need to be preparing for. Training strictly for woodland warfare will do you no good if you can't make it out there in the first place.