Night vision devices and usage/cost

[norinco]

A question for those who have already purchased night vision devices or thermal imaging devices.

Are you finding another other ancillary uses for the equipment other than having it for training and the obvious benefits it would have come SHTF?

How many years do you expect it to function (all equipment has a shelf life) for you in your current usage and while in storage.

What made you decide to make the purchase and what might have been your next best choice in spending the money?

[USMC0331]

I went cheap on the NV with a Gen1+ Spark, but I have used it the most to look for yotes coming in for my chickens and find it's limitations well... limiting.

Would I spend $3K for PV14's next time? No. I'd go with the Spark or a Gen2 and add a thermal handheld unit.

If I had it to do over, I would buy the thermal unit first.

[panzer0170]

Sept 28, 2014 21:20:28 GMT -5 USMC0331 said:

I went cheap on the NV with a Gen1+ Spark, but I have used it the most to look for yotes coming in for my chickens and find it's limitations well... limiting.

Would I spend $3K for PV14's next time? No. I'd go with the Spark or a Gen2 and add a thermal handheld unit.

If I had it to do over, I would buy the thermal unit first.

I've never had to pay for one, but I have to point out that thermal sights are excellent, unless you're working in a particularly hot environment. Unless you're scanning for fires, engine block heat, and other really hot stuff, you can have issues around dusk, when the ambient temperature makes everything blur. 

Thermal is definitely a good bit of kit, just letting folk who haven't had practical experience with it in on some of the issues in 'real world' use.

I would be tempted, in a static location, to use some outdoor IR lighting in combination with NVIS to give you a wide/clear view, whilst not obviously signposting your location.


I really do need to get my hands on some of this gear from the US, but your laws make it illegal to look through most of the gear (which is a STUPID law, given you can buy the same stuff abroad, built to the same standards under license...) so I can't compare to any of the issued stuff I've seen.

[currahee]

Sept 28, 2014 21:09:50 GMT -5 norinco said:

A question for those who have already purchased night vision devices or thermal imaging devices.

Are you finding another other ancillary uses for the equipment other than having it for training and the obvious benefits it would have come SHTF?

How many years do you expect it to function (all equipment has a shelf life) for you in your current usage and while in storage.

What made you decide to make the purchase and what might have been your next best choice in spending the money?

I haven't been hunting with it yet, but it's on the agenda. Stargazing is so much more interesting as well.

When thinking of shelf life in NV you think in terms of "tube hours" the higher the generation the longer the tube life.

I wrote a page on this

I had a Spark, which I consider a good purchase, but it really doesn't compare to 3rd gen. If there is one piece of technology that puts you far ahead it is NV. To quote a friend- I'd rather have NV and an SKS than ten of the best ARs in the world.

The used market on NV is not horrible, if you save your money and shop there are deals to be had.

[norinco]

Sept 29, 2014 11:30:42 GMT -5 currahee said:

I haven't been hunting with it yet, but it's on the agenda. Stargazing is so much more interesting as well.

When thinking of shelf life in NV you think in terms of "tube hours" the higher the generation the longer the tube life.

I wrote a page on this

I had a Spark, which I consider a good purchase, but it really doesn't compare to 3rd gen. If there is one piece of technology that puts you far ahead it is NV. To quote a friend- I'd rather have NV and an SKS than ten of the best ARs in the world.

The used market on NV is not horrible, if you save your money and shop there are deals to be had.

[/quote]

Thanks currahee for your info on this. I hadn't seen that update to your webpage yet. I'll check it out.

[USMC0331]

Unless everyone in your group is running NV on their head and using illuminators and lasers, I think having thermal to ID the threat and using white light and old school night fighting is a better way to go.

Getting NV setups for a fire team without Uncle Sugar paying the bill is a waste of money IMO.

[m1a2abramsman]

I've used the PVS14, PVS7, and thermal sights in the Army. I think the monocle design is vastly superior to the PVS14 style. Does anyone know of a good gen 3 or 4 monocle type NVG for under $2500?

[Erick]

Curahee:
Seems like ACUs are not bad at night?

[Diz]

Well there are many opinions on this subject. You could argue that going without and using white light is the best practical approach, and this approach does have merit. But you could also argue that having NV is truly a game-changer and worth trying to obtain.

As a practical matter, getting a $3,000+ piece of equipment (plus helmet, mount, and IR laser/light which can double that) is not in the cards for most folks. Although a lot of folks have other toys of equivalent cost.

I have not been impressed with other low-cost NV gear. You're just as good with your Mk1 Mod0 eye ball, IMHO. It's tempting but just a waste of money. Either go all the way with gen III or nothing. It's all about picture quality and tube life. Either invest in something that gives you a much better picture, and has a long tube life, or go without.

So what to do. Invest in yourself first. Get good solid references for essential subjects. Take some classes. Build up your basic load out of weapons and equipment. Stock upon supplies. If after all this you have the money left over for NV gear, go for it. If not, don't sweat it. People have been sneaking around in the bush for a long time without it.

[waffenmacht]

I agree with pretty much everything Biz says above.

[Erick]

Diz:

Where you answering me or someone else?

I was asking about ACUs Army combat uniform patterns at night.
In the pic of the pouch it looked real good.

[USMC0331]

I have not been impressed with other low-cost NV gear. You're just as good with your Mk1 Mod0 eye ball, IMHO.

I hear this a lot. It's either over exaggeration or lack of comparison. Even the cheapest Gen 1 will allow you to see where the naked eye won't.

The SPARK Gen 1+ is the only non Gen 3 I would bother with in a monocular.

I guarantee I can see you with one more often than you can see me without throughout a wide variety of lighting circumstances.

[panzer0170]

Oct 7, 2014 17:12:29 GMT -5 USMC0331 said:

I have not been impressed with other low-cost NV gear. You're just as good with your Mk1 Mod0 eye ball, IMHO.

I hear this a lot. It's either over exaggeration or lack of comparison. Even the cheapest Gen 1 will allow you to see where the naked eye won't.

The SPARK Gen 1+ is the only non Gen 3 I would bother with in a monocular.

I guarantee I can see you with one more often than you can see me without throughout a wide variety of lighting circumstances.

Whilst mostly true, I'd have to say this depends on where you live - If you're urban(or even urbanISH) then the chances are there's a lot of lighting that's going to give you issues using the gear. It's also not particularly much better than the eye if you have a full moon and a nice sillhouetted person. It's all very situational - Here in the UK there is that much street lighting that NVIS gets in the way more than it helps, unless you get out into a properly country area, and drop yourself in a valley to see it work PROPERLY.


In TRULY dense jungle environments the same is true, without using active IR lighting, which in turn is like walking around with white light on to anyone smart enough to stay still and wait. I think the key is to working out if it even suits your personal circumstances, rather than wearing it because it makes you look like some high-speed ninja.

[USMC0331]

Hard to use something you don't have. Might make sense to ask those who do and have tried them out to see their limitations.

Before I bought my SPARK I spent many nights with a PVS14 and Nightowl Gen1 side by side in the city and country and came to the conclusion that a Gen1+ would do what I needed for $500 much better than the PVS14 at $3K in an observation role.

[waffenmacht]

Here's a big boy. Raytheon W1000-9 mounted on AR-10.  About 9k once you have all the extra batteries, mil-charging station, thermal targets, ect... Great for overwatch, but it's heavy.