Kenya Mall Shooting - One Year Later

[UnforseenWeather]

I just watched an HBO documentary on the Westgate Kenya Mall shooting. Info <---- that link seems slow. Here is a link for the Wikipedia page... Click

Some takeaways... Carry your gun in public whenever you can. Duh. Not that licensed CPL holders with guns would have ended the mall shooters, only that you need all the tools you can get to just escape. Shoot your way out. There were CPL holders (or whatever they are called in Kenya) there, they did help people. One noted "I only had 14 rounds on me..." (words to that effect) so ensure you carry spare mags.

Also don't count on prompt first aid or police. Our active shooter responses are (from what I have read) much better than a third-world country like Kenya's, but do not count on prompt attention and care. Shore up first aid skills.

In short, ugliness exists in the world, as we all know. Having to witness your wife bleed out in front of you while you're wounded yourself (as one man interviewed related) is not something I wish to have happen.

[omnivorous]

A Westgate-style of terrorist attack would be relatively easy to do in the US. I for one, will try to avoid such places as malls all I can this Fall and Winter seasons, aside from the usual reasons. I was having a conversation related to this one not too long ago with a trainer, and my main point and concern, was that I think such groups know not everywhere can be covered at once, and as opposed to going for one big, elaborate operation, terrorist (real terrorist) organizations may try to pull off smaller attacks in areas which will be much less surveilled and guarded. A shopping mall is such a place, in my opinion, but so would be any other place of large public gatherings. Big movie premieres, perhaps? Lower-level/local sporting events? Security screening checkpoints? This last one in particular is the greatest concern to me. Why try to get into somewhere to off a bunch of people, and risk getting caught, when you can just set-off a bomb or open fire with a rifle at close range, at the poor souls bunched up like cattle?

I just got a re-cert-ed for First Aid, CPR, and AED, but I really want to get some training for treating severe injuries, like GSWs. Aside from wanting to carry more ammo, and I already carry more 31 rounds split btw two mags, I've been thinking of purchasing and carrying a second defensive pistol. The fastest reload is the New York Reload, am I right?

[USMC0331]

@omni,
I'm with your on more ammo and a second gun. I carry a G17 in a shoulder holster with 2 spare mags for (49) 9mm and a S&W442 in an ankle holster for a BUG. The reasoning is that the BUG can be handed to the wife or another or used as a last resort if I'm ID'd as a threat and disarmed while in condition White.

@uw,
Packing a BOK is tough for me in Summer, but if you are wearing a light or heavy coat, there is no excuse not to have one on you. EDC BOK = Celox & Gauze and SWATT for me. Simple, low pro and multi-use. Eventually I will break down and combine the two with a few z-paks of Combat Gauze just for this application.

I remember watching videos (10 years ago) about the use of mobile random attacks using gunmen in the back of trucks, ambushing officers on the highways for the terror effect. Surprised it hasn't happened yet.

Look at the recent shootings in PA by that "Rationalist" (giggle) nut case. They took people out of their homes and made them "shelter in place" at the local fire dept. for 3 days while looking for him. A whole city loses their constitutional rights because cops want to make their search easier? Look at the panic the DC Snipers created. You don't think there would be an even heavier shutdown by .gov these days if that were to happen again?

The amount of panic and disruption a few armed musloids can create will be astounding when it finally starts happening here as ISUL is promising.

PS> CPR does not work in the field IMO, stopping the bleeding is what you will need to be able to do, thankfully it's not rocket science.

[omnivorous]

Yeah, don't man the pumps (chest compressions), if you haven't patched the holes in the hull, and if you can't clear those rooms close'um off (TQs) until you can. Basically, if you pump someone's heart for them, with stopping the hemorrhaging, you'll just pump the blood out of their body faster. (I'm not off-base on that, am I? Anyone feel free to straighten me out, if I am.)

IDK if its been luck, or the effectiveness of the counter-terror apparatus of the Fed and State governments, which have kept terrorist attacks in the US from growing out of hand. Probably more one than the other, I just can't tell which sometimes. Not to mention, stuff still gets through. Just look at the attacks on the power plant in California, which is still unsolved.

For the roadway ambushes, just look at the footage ISIL has put online of them just driving down the road in Iraq, hosing seemingly random cars they pull up too.

The worst part of such an attack my have upon the US, I don't think would be from the death and damage itself, but would be from a massive Fed and/or Fed supported local response. Case-in-point the lock-down after the Boston Marathon Bombing, and the manhunt in PA USMC0331 brought up.

[UnforseenWeather]

I was thinking a bandage and a TQ mainly for the FAK.

The show was worth a watch if you can find it somewhere. I really do wish this was on PBS or something, at least I could provide a link to view it.

The entire thing just reinforces the basics for me:

1: Carry your gun whenever possible. Be trained with it and be proficient and as confident as possible with using it.

2: Action beats reaction/shelter in place (one man tried to keep an eye on the attackers by hiding under an elephant statue. The terrs found him and shot him in the head. He didn't die quickly though, he thrashed about for quite some time in his own blood before he finally bled out). Get out, disrupt their OODA loops if they're that close, whatever... Don't just sit there.

3: Know a way out whenever possible. Also, know where your family is in relation to your position. In short, keep track of them. One woman left her kids in the middle of a mall to go grab a bottle of wine just as the attack started. She had to make her way through a lot of panicked people to get to her panicked children. While I never rely on the kindness of others, it was very heartening to see the stories of people helping one another. Someone had grabbed her kids and helped get them to temporary safety.

4: It's coming here at some point. I'm surprised it hasn't already, given some of the things I've read, but at some time it will be here and we'll be discussing another radical Islamic attack on the US. So prepare.

[panzer0170]

Sept 24, 2014 8:50:05 GMT -5 UnforseenWeather said:

I was thinking a bandage and a TQ mainly for the FAK.

The show was worth a watch if you can find it somewhere. I really do wish this was on PBS or something, at least I could provide a link to view it.

The entire thing just reinforces the basics for me:

1: Carry your gun whenever possible. Be trained with it and be proficient and as confident as possible with using it.

2: Action beats reaction/shelter in place (one man tried to keep an eye on the attackers by hiding under an elephant statue. The terrs found him and shot him in the head. He didn't die quickly though, he thrashed about for quite some time in his own blood before he finally bled out). Get out, disrupt their OODA loops if they're that close, whatever... Don't just sit there.

3: Know a way out whenever possible. Also, know where your family is in relation to your position. In short, keep track of them. One woman left her kids in the middle of a mall to go grab a bottle of wine just as the attack started. She had to make her way through a lot of panicked people to get to her panicked children. While I never rely on the kindness of others, it was very heartening to see the stories of people helping one another. Someone had grabbed her kids and helped get them to temporary safety.

4: It's coming here at some point. I'm surprised it hasn't already, given some of the things I've read, but at some time it will be here and we'll be discussing another radical Islamic attack on the US. So prepare.

The Irish were good at this. They struggle a lot more, now, because of CCTV, the internet, mobile phones (seriously, they're a godsend, regardless of what unethical stuff might get done with them, I know a few people who have the NSA to thank for being alive because of their efforts...) And thus will be the issue for anyone who isn't american LOOKING, SOUNDING etc.


For ME, the terror threat is probably not the middle eastern looking muslim extremists, it's going to be the black ones. Now let me be clear, this isn't about racism - It's about the fact that as a black man, it will be easier for them to blend into large parts of US society, versus your 'stereotypical' muslim extremists. What worked in Ireland worked so well because they were local, sounded local, and when they went round a corner, threw a coat off and their balaclava, they turned into a local, in their own estate, and no one could say they didn't have a reason to be there. Blending in is the biggest weapon - Doesn't matter how any potential ATTACK is carried out, it's everything in the run-up to the event that matters.

[omnivorous]

Sept 24, 2014 13:43:09 GMT -5 panzer0170 said:

Sept 24, 2014 8:50:05 GMT -5 UnforseenWeather said:

I was thinking a bandage and a TQ mainly for the FAK.

The show was worth a watch if you can find it somewhere. I really do wish this was on PBS or something, at least I could provide a link to view it.

The entire thing just reinforces the basics for me:

1: Carry your gun whenever possible. Be trained with it and be proficient and as confident as possible with using it.

2: Action beats reaction/shelter in place (one man tried to keep an eye on the attackers by hiding under an elephant statue. The terrs found him and shot him in the head. He didn't die quickly though, he thrashed about for quite some time in his own blood before he finally bled out). Get out, disrupt their OODA loops if they're that close, whatever... Don't just sit there.

3: Know a way out whenever possible. Also, know where your family is in relation to your position. In short, keep track of them. One woman left her kids in the middle of a mall to go grab a bottle of wine just as the attack started. She had to make her way through a lot of panicked people to get to her panicked children. While I never rely on the kindness of others, it was very heartening to see the stories of people helping one another. Someone had grabbed her kids and helped get them to temporary safety.

4: It's coming here at some point. I'm surprised it hasn't already, given some of the things I've read, but at some time it will be here and we'll be discussing another radical Islamic attack on the US. So prepare.

The Irish were good at this. They struggle a lot more, now, because of CCTV, the internet, mobile phones (seriously, they're a godsend, regardless of what unethical stuff might get done with them, I know a few people who have the NSA to thank for being alive because of their efforts...) And thus will be the issue for anyone who isn't american LOOKING, SOUNDING etc.


For ME, the terror threat is probably not the middle eastern looking muslim extremists, it's going to be the black ones. Now let me be clear, this isn't about racism - It's about the fact that as a black man, it will be easier for them to blend into large parts of US society, versus your 'stereotypical' muslim extremists. What worked in Ireland worked so well because they were local, sounded local, and when they went round a corner, threw a coat off and their balaclava, they turned into a local, in their own estate, and no one could say they didn't have a reason to be there. Blending in is the biggest weapon - Doesn't matter how any potential ATTACK is carried out, it's everything in the run-up to the event that matters.

Don't worry about being falsely accused of that crap! It has been a legitimate concern in the US, going back to the first 9/11 attack, and possibly even earlier. I would be concerned about white converts as well. Also, don't forget, the most populous Islamic country is Indonesia. There are armed conflicts with Asian Islamist extremists in the South Pacific right now. The London manual alone, shows they understand the diversity and pluralism of Western society, can be easily exploited by them.