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Post by panzer0170 on Sept 5, 2014 15:20:39 GMT -5
So, first let me explain:
No brand names. No specifics, no mention of actual peices of gear. Though I have in my head some specific brand names =I= would like to apply, at least for certain roles. What I want to do is talk through a scaleable set of gear, from nekkid to 'war'.
Confines of the argument/discussion:
I will be wearing a suit (or shirt/tie/jumper combination. More than likely NOT the jacket, so it's out for concealment.)
for EDC. The option to wear any sort of comfortable tactical gear is out, and therefore a lot of the gear around the BELT is likely to be leather, but needs to work with more 'tactical' stuff.
I need to be able to fight 'heavy' without plates. They can be part of the system, but I will probably not run magazines/BOK/etc from the PC, because I will not always have it and want consistency from nekkid to 'war'.
I am assuming that I can somehow carry a BLOW-OUT (not full!) Kit on my rifle. If I haven't got access to my rifle for any reason, I will be carrying it in a trouser pocket, or a bag. (Essentially all EDC options.)
It needs to work with: Walking. Quad bikes. Snow mobiles. Winter clothing. Skis. Cars. Bikes. IDEALLY at least a portion should be climbable.
I might think of some more that I haven't listed here; I will edit THIS post to include those thoughts that constrain the discussion. I'm not trying to be a dick, but there may be things other people think of that I haven't yet, and I might need to include MORE constraints.
Idea: Scaleable equipment from bump in the night, ROL scenario right the way through to a heavy 'war' setup.
Current thoughts, without help:
Bump in the night:
Bandoleer(3mags). Rifle, loaded. Perhaps underwear.
EDC: Suit. Leather belt. holster (r/h) pistol magazines on the belt. Probably all leather, or at least anything showing.
EDC+: Same, with a left hand subload(2mags) & a bandoleer. Bandoleer to sit above and leave access to magazine pouches. Subload to sit below magazine pouches, ideally with some form of QD mounts (cobra buckle?) so you can throw it on as an extra, and you otherwise have a normal belt.
War-lite: Non-leather belt, otherwise same as EDC. Comfier clothes, likely mostly subdued stuff, maybe a camouflage upper.
War-heavy: Add a bandoleer. Helmet with scrim.
For transport/travel: Works with a waist belted ruck, like the Sabre 75.
Any thoughts anyone can add? Questions are welcome - I need to think about this, and I've thought up all my OWN questions - Who else has some that'll help? What have I missed? What can I improve? What can I add?
All thoughts welcome. If I disagree I'll try to say WHY, and provide my reasoning.
Thanks all,
Panz
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Post by eddiewouldclearhot on Sept 5, 2014 19:29:53 GMT -5
well, a blow out kit on you rifle may not be the best idea. I personally have a tourniquet on my rifle sling, but i have 2 on my chest rig and one on my belt. point being: layering is fine, but if you are going to have 1 BOK and want consistency, the belt may be the place for it.
magazines on the belt/waist are what i think everyone runs for consistency, especially for pistol reloads. so no issues there. I have two pistol mags on the belt and one rifle mag for emergency reloads, the rest are in a chest rig.
I can verify that on two way range, the uw gear chest rig works really well. keep fresh magazines in the gun, and plus up the chest rig when able from a patrol pack.
for me, the best thing you can carry with you everyday is a water bottle. Its not sexy, but I'M friggin telling you going even hours without water will degrade your performance. If your trying to get home, you're going to want some water. I can run the rest of the way. My best EDC item is my fitness.
I just carry all my stuff in a bag. stupid easy. Theres all sorts of goodies in there, despite office place rules. you just have to have the discipline to take the bag with you everywhere.
for me, there is no reason to EDC rifle mags. If it gets bad and the rifle goes everywhere, then thats a different story, and I will be dressed accordingly. Not in office attire.
hope this helps.
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Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Sept 5, 2014 19:59:56 GMT -5
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Post by panzer0170 on Sept 6, 2014 14:28:04 GMT -5
EDC is more like what I'd be after, for a start. Again, I don't want to get brand specific but I like this. Thanks  (Part of the reason I don't want to get brand specific: 1) I'm in the UK. In 3 or so years everything available will be different, hopefully better and/or cheaper. 2) I don't want people getting bogged down in WHOSE mag pouches, WHOSE belts, WHOSE holster, etc. [Though I know in this case that is not going to be an issue; Med is your thing, and I doubt anyone can argue with you]) |
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Post by panzer0170 on Sept 6, 2014 14:46:41 GMT -5
well, a blow out kit on you rifle may not be the best idea. I personally have a tourniquet on my rifle sling, but i have 2 on my chest rig and one on my belt. point being: layering is fine, but if you are going to have 1 BOK and want consistency, the belt may be the place for it. magazines on the belt/waist are what i think everyone runs for consistency, especially for pistol reloads. so no issues there. I have two pistol mags on the belt and one rifle mag for emergency reloads, the rest are in a chest rig. I can verify that on two way range, the uw gear chest rig works really well. keep fresh magazines in the gun, and plus up the chest rig when able from a patrol pack. for me, the best thing you can carry with you everyday is a water bottle. Its not sexy, but I'M friggin telling you going even hours without water will degrade your performance. If your trying to get home, you're going to want some water. I can run the rest of the way. My best EDC item is my fitness. I just carry all my stuff in a bag. stupid easy. Theres all sorts of goodies in there, despite office place rules. you just have to have the discipline to take the bag with you everywhere. for me, there is no reason to EDC rifle mags. If it gets bad and the rifle goes everywhere, then thats a different story, and I will be dressed accordingly. Not in office attire. hope this helps. Totally agree on water-bottle. Have seen studies, and taken part in 'degradation' (Hard work in full NBC gear, can only drink through respirator.) designed to make sure you experience and UNDERSTAND the effects of dehydration. Dehydration, Non-Freezing Cold Injuries, Heat Injuries & Hygeine bother me a LOT more than gunshot wounds. My thoughts on BOK on rifle, rather than belt: Which belt? Have I even got a belt on? Middle of the night, I'm not going to throw a belt on if I don't think I have time, I -AM- going to get a rifle before I go anywhere though. I don't really intend to EDC Rifle mags, but if I'm doing any sort of hard labour I'd like to have SOME sort of load attached, and I don't want to have to work in a chest rig/plate carrier. On the thigh I think is the least noticable place, assuming I'm using belt for EDC pistol stuff. I would LIKE to keep a rifle in my vehicle, if at all possible. My personal biggest worry, even though they're VERY rare statistically, and even moreso in the state I intend to move to (MN), are school shootings. (But you know, prepare to fail, or fail to prepare...) If I have that rifle I want to have a variety of levels of capability available, school or not. I don't ever INTEND to be in that gear, but I figure if I can fight in office clothes and provide a good report of myself, then I should be able to do it in boots with ankle support, sweat wicking clothing, camouflage etc... I'd like to THINK I can fight without office clothes on - But I can't guarantee that I'll have the opportunity, at least INITIALLY to operate otherwise. Obviously I would strive for optimum performance, comfort and 'fightability' at all times. Can you expand on why a BOK on the rifle is a bad idea? My current thinking is this: Your rifle is out in front of you, loose. If your right arm is hit, you can get to it with your left, and vice versa. IN ADDITION to this, I'd like to have one to hand in a cargo pocket, or possibly a magazine pouch. (esp when only armed with a pistol.) Again, I go back to the middle of the night scenario. Where is my BOK in the middle of the night, if I'm throwing a bandoleer on? Thanks for the input, now give me more!  |
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bigen
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Post by bigen on Jan 11, 2015 3:30:01 GMT -5
worry a lot more about what you can do with your pistol, in normal times. if if it's wartime, I'd worrry a lot more about what I could do with sneakiness and my first 5 shots, not what I'd do after I missed a bunch of times, which is the only reason to need the first reload, actually. 10 hits is going to accomplish a lot more for you than 100 misses.
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Post by panzer0170 on Jan 11, 2015 6:06:22 GMT -5
worry a lot more about what you can do with your pistol, in normal times. if if it's wartime, I'd worrry a lot more about what I could do with sneakiness and my first 5 shots, not what I'd do after I missed a bunch of times, which is the only reason to need the first reload, actually. 10 hits is going to accomplish a lot more for you than 100 misses. Agreed. Now here's the issue; I'm in the UK and 90% of the SKILLS aspect of everything I can't practise. I have a solid grounding (nearly a decade) in the military and how things are done, and chances are when I get to moving to the USA I'll have to start from totally fresh. Some skills transfer, the key ones I'll need are 'doing stuff in 4 months of REAL winter' and the rest is basically 'What do I need to get this done'? We realised very quickly when we went to Afghan/When Iraq turned into peacekeeping rather than an invasion that the traditional use of webbing and carrying loads of stuff in it wasn't working, so we went to stuff on the plate carrier and then finally BACK to belt gear but massively slimmed down (bombs, ammo, water). New soldiers joining don't have to learn those lessons; Someone has learned them instead. I'm trying to learn the GEAR lessons before I 'Join' the USA, so I don't have to A) Waste money and B) Waste time. To go back to sneakiness; I agree. And a large part of that IS gear. We would ditch webbing and helmets, with someone in overwatch, for close recce's. Using something like the UW gear chest rigs or bandoleer, you can achieve something close to no gear with a level of stealth you couldn't acheive otherwise. If I tried to carry our issued 'man bag' with 9 mags and room for smoke/frag I'd be like a baby elephant crashing through the bush. Gear whoring and clever gear selection are two different things, and one of them is IMPORTANT. |
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bigen
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Post by bigen on Jan 11, 2015 7:12:40 GMT -5
soldier stuff doesn't apply for 99+% of those reading this. you'll be alone if shtf, as far as trained people is concerned anyway. You won't have rifle rated armor, either. all you'll have is you, no resupply, other than from your own caches, or from the dead. So the great majority of military stuff is irrelevant. there won't be anyone to commo or coordinated WITH, other than your dependants, who will be non combatants, and frankly, combat liabilities, which is why no military in the world lets dependants be around the soldiers in a combat zone. Doing so would render the troops completely useless.
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Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Jan 11, 2015 8:44:22 GMT -5
well, a blow out kit on you rifle may not be the best idea. I personally have a tourniquet on my rifle sling, but i have 2 on my chest rig and one on my belt. point being: layering is fine, but if you are going to have 1 BOK and want consistency, the belt may be the place for it. magazines on the belt/waist are what i think everyone runs for consistency, especially for pistol reloads. so no issues there. I have two pistol mags on the belt and one rifle mag for emergency reloads, the rest are in a chest rig. I can verify that on two way range, the uw gear chest rig works really well. keep fresh magazines in the gun, and plus up the chest rig when able from a patrol pack. for me, the best thing you can carry with you everyday is a water bottle. Its not sexy, but I'M friggin telling you going even hours without water will degrade your performance. If your trying to get home, you're going to want some water. I can run the rest of the way. My best EDC item is my fitness. I just carry all my stuff in a bag. stupid easy. Theres all sorts of goodies in there, despite office place rules. you just have to have the discipline to take the bag with you everywhere. for me, there is no reason to EDC rifle mags. If it gets bad and the rifle goes everywhere, then thats a different story, and I will be dressed accordingly. Not in office attire. hope this helps. Totally agree on water-bottle. Have seen studies, and taken part in 'degradation' (Hard work in full NBC gear, can only drink through respirator.) designed to make sure you experience and UNDERSTAND the effects of dehydration. Dehydration, Non-Freezing Cold Injuries, Heat Injuries & Hygeine bother me a LOT more than gunshot wounds. My thoughts on BOK on rifle, rather than belt: Which belt? Have I even got a belt on? Middle of the night, I'm not going to throw a belt on if I don't think I have time, I -AM- going to get a rifle before I go anywhere though. I don't really intend to EDC Rifle mags, but if I'm doing any sort of hard labour I'd like to have SOME sort of load attached, and I don't want to have to work in a chest rig/plate carrier. On the thigh I think is the least noticable place, assuming I'm using belt for EDC pistol stuff. I would LIKE to keep a rifle in my vehicle, if at all possible. My personal biggest worry, even though they're VERY rare statistically, and even moreso in the state I intend to move to (MN), are school shootings. (But you know, prepare to fail, or fail to prepare...) If I have that rifle I want to have a variety of levels of capability available, school or not. I don't ever INTEND to be in that gear, but I figure if I can fight in office clothes and provide a good report of myself, then I should be able to do it in boots with ankle support, sweat wicking clothing, camouflage etc... I'd like to THINK I can fight without office clothes on - But I can't guarantee that I'll have the opportunity, at least INITIALLY to operate otherwise. Obviously I would strive for optimum performance, comfort and 'fightability' at all times. Can you expand on why a BOK on the rifle is a bad idea? My current thinking is this: Your rifle is out in front of you, loose. If your right arm is hit, you can get to it with your left, and vice versa. IN ADDITION to this, I'd like to have one to hand in a cargo pocket, or possibly a magazine pouch. (esp when only armed with a pistol.) Again, I go back to the middle of the night scenario. Where is my BOK in the middle of the night, if I'm throwing a bandoleer on? Thanks for the input, now give me more! Wow, somehow I missed this back in September when you posted it @panzer. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out when you want to carry a BOK. Part of your post says "Middle of the night" and "getting a rifle before you go" and other posts talk about keeping the rifle in a car and not EDC rifle mags. You ask why not to carry a BOK on rifle. The reason I don't, in a non-SHTF world, is if you are moving to or between cover and happen to get clipped, then the rifle may drop to the ground (unless it's slung, but I'm assuming you grabbed it at night and didn't sling it). There goes your BOK. For a home invasion I prefer a pistol, but that's my preference. Now in a SHTF world, and I'm sure that I may need the rifle then I'll have my UWG chest rig on with my BOK. If your intent is to use a rifle for a home invasion at night (non-SHTF), then get a UWG bandoleer and ranger band a 3"x9" petroleum gauze and a TQ onto the shoulder strap. The TQ would cover you for an extremity hit and the pet. gauze you can slap on a chest wound. The EMS and Police will be responding and can help with further med care. For a low profile kit you may want to look at this... www.rescue-essentials.com/downed-officer-kit-by-rescue-essentials-re-dok/ add a petroleum gauze and/or chest seal and poof, you got a BOK. I have one of these, that would get to me  ?, in my home if needed. I'll also sometimes carry it in a cargo pocket when out of the house. Don't know if that helped or not. Hope it did. |
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Post by panzer0170 on Jan 11, 2015 12:50:03 GMT -5
soldier stuff doesn't apply for 99+% of those reading this. you'll be alone if shtf, as far as trained people is concerned anyway. You won't have rifle rated armor, either. all you'll have is you, no resupply, other than from your own caches, or from the dead. So the great majority of military stuff is irrelevant. there won't be anyone to commo or coordinated WITH, other than your dependants, who will be non combatants, and frankly, combat liabilities, which is why no military in the world lets dependants be around the soldiers in a combat zone. Doing so would render the troops completely useless. Part of the ethos of people here is working with others who are like minded. I'm not saying that I'm going to be using military gear, or even established military tactics. I'm using the military as an example of how people have a set of requirements and are set up to handle them, how they face something different and they adapt. If you prepare for what you're going to adapt TO before it happens, you don't have to learn it the hard way. At the most basic level; Taping your feet up is accepted world over as a good choice. I am going to state now that Compeed is, without exception, the best thing I have ever used as far as blister treatment or prevention. Nothing else, especially the generic stuff, has come close to the heat management/blister healing. Hopefully, that information will mean someone else gets the best bit of gear for the job, without having to buy a whole bunch of different stuff and nacker their feet repeatedly to see which one works. On top of that, I'd say military skills DO matter. Even if you're by yourself, simple concepts like 'up, seen, down' are the kind of thing that some people have NEVER heard of, and can use effectively if they ever need to. Some of the bigger picture stuff is irrelevant, but we're aware of that  |
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Post by hudson5969 on Jan 11, 2015 19:04:48 GMT -5
Ever used the Compeed anti-blister stick? Is it as good as the stick-on stuff?
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Post by panzer0170 on Jan 11, 2015 19:07:57 GMT -5
Ever used the Compeed anti-blister stick? Is it as good as the stick-on stuff? Sorry mate, I haven't. Let me know if you ever get the opportunity to try it! I might see if I can get hold of one and find some shitty old boots that SHOULD rub. Don't know if I kept any, though |
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?, in my home if needed. I'll also sometimes carry it in a cargo pocket when out of the house.
