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Post by panzer0170 on Jul 29, 2014 15:14:13 GMT -5
So, I've been thinking, and I've seen things done a thousand different ways, and for different reasons.
Question:
Given the level (minimal) of exposure I've had to handgun shooting, other than in a nice pristine range, off a bench/table-thing, is there any reason I can't learn to shoot PRIMARILY from my left hand(Shoot, OC, CC, everything)?
Reasoning / Potential SOP:
I carry my rifle right handed. I can lower my rifle in a controlled manner and have my handgun most of the way to deployed before I've let go of my rifle.
Drawing with my left hand leaves my strong hand free to do strong hand stuff (hold on to things, carry shit...)
If I work a battle belt (preferred overt setup) I can have solid access to rifle mags with my left hand, and pistol mags with my right hand.
Assuming a bandoleer is on my left side, with a mag pouch at the front I can still get to that pouch cross body with relative ease (on top of 2 at the belt..)
Qualifications: I REALLY DON'T LIKE the idea of carrying the pistol directly on the belt, beyond EDC. I think, for me, a drop leg would be where it's at. This idea is in its infancy. Would be glad of people with BOTH good AND bad points, for and against.
Current things that I can think of that are going to be a bit shitty:
Presentation from a car to the offside would be a lot less clean, and arc of fire minimal.
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Post by USMC0331 on Jul 29, 2014 18:10:07 GMT -5
It's not as much an issue with learning mechanix as it is using your non-dominant eye. That's a hard thing to train IME. I believe you should have the mechanix down for weak and strong on handgun and carbine, but would not entertain the thought of using the non-dominant side as a primary except for familiarization training.
I believe you should Use the fastest and most accurate method you have to deploy lethal force, using my non-dom eye and "weak" side does not fulfil that mission.
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Post by panzer0170 on Jul 29, 2014 18:17:09 GMT -5
Question: What would stop me using my left hand and my right eye? I shoot with 2 eyes open as it is, buy I've only ever fired right handed, so I've never fired 'crosseyed', as it were. If it wouldn't stop me, how would it ALTER my shooting?
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Post by USMC0331 on Jul 29, 2014 22:31:56 GMT -5
If you are right eye dom, I doubt you can do anything but that if both eyes are open.
I would think you are still going to be shooting with less proficiency unless you are truly ambidextrous because of lack of coordination and a lifetime of using your strong side over your weak for all tasks in life.
What is driving the desire to run your handgun weak-side again? If it's transitions, I'm not seeing your sling set-up in my mind as my 2pt drives the gun to my left side and leaves my 3:00 position open to get to the gun at the same time.
Give it a worl and tell us what you find, but I think it's gonna be awkward unless I'm missing the driving factor behind the idea, which I think I am.
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Post by UnforseenWeather on Jul 30, 2014 6:26:53 GMT -5
If you are right handed I'd keep my training on the right side.
Definitely do not neglect weak/reaction-side drills for familiarization, as well as transitions from primary to backup.
IMHO The only exception to this would be if you are truly ambidextrous, which is a rarity.
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Post by panzer0170 on Jul 30, 2014 6:44:00 GMT -5
usmc0331, UnforseenWeather - I'm just going to give up on it as an idea (might TRY it, in the future, but plan for right side I take on BOTH your points, all are valid) My next question then is this: If you're carrying strong side, drop leg [unless you can suggest somewhere other than the belt which is equally as good!] (because it's not going on my belt, that's a hard and fast rule, which is more based out of gut feeling than sense or training!) where can you carry magazines for the pistol that is half decent (Don't want to carry 'kangaroo' style on rifle mags, and don't want to carry in place of rifle mags.) ANOTHER drop leg just seems like it will complicate things, and I haven't seen any other real variations that I look at and go 'That looks like it would work'. Thoughts?
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Post by Diz on Jul 30, 2014 7:45:47 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from. This is something I looked at briefly back when I was running a Kalashnikov. It would seem to make sense to have alternate weapons keyed to separate hands for max efficiency. In a perfect world, that would be a nice skill to have. However, there are some other considerations. USMC03 brings up a good point or two, but with training (or a RDS) you could conceivably overcome any problems. In the end, my thought was you have to consider whether you want to shoot better or fight better. Holding your rifle with the strong hand while drawing and firing the pistol weak hand (yeah I know) might be quicker in some cases, but you still have two hands full of shit. I would rather take that 1/2 second to clear one weapon and access the other so I am still ready to fight, i.e. the off-hand can still block/parry, punch, etc. The thought being that switching up to handgun is a close range solution so I want to be able to strike, block, etc, (not to mention move) as well as shoot.
If you look at it, switching up to weak hand hold, and then drawing strong hand, is not that much slower, really. The rifle can then be dropped to hang, if you need the other hand. BTW going this route will allow you to sling strong side, which is far more comfortable for the other 23 1/2 hours you are caring the thing.
So in theory, I like the way you're thinking, but in practice I think you'd be better off with a strong hand transition.
One last point. You may use "alternate" transition tools, as Hawkeye's evil twin says. This would include knife, or even 'hawk (fuck you Mosby I think it's badass). So unless you can fight just as well left handed with ALL this shit, I'd stay with my dominate hand.
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Post by USMC0331 on Jul 30, 2014 12:52:05 GMT -5
@panzer, When you say belt are you talking a "battle belt" MOLLE style or a "duty belt" or EDC belt? You can see how I carry my mags in the pic thread. Seems most natural to me to keep them on the off side with possible one for ambi use if it will fit on the strong side.
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Post by panzer0170 on Jul 30, 2014 13:06:25 GMT -5
usmc0331 Dislike battle belt wear. Don't mind for EDC, but its just... weird to draw & carry from there, with a battle belt on. Used to having that area for flares, smoke, extra magazines etc. It's... the same as training away from a bullpup. If I reached for a flare now, wearing my empty rig, I'd reach to that one place, every time. Drop leg would be reasonable, if there are no alternatives?
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Post by panzer0170 on Jul 30, 2014 13:52:12 GMT -5
I get where you're coming from. This is something I looked at briefly back when I was running a Kalashnikov. It would seem to make sense to have alternate weapons keyed to separate hands for max efficiency. In a perfect world, that would be a nice skill to have. However, there are some other considerations. USMC03 brings up a good point or two, but with training (or a RDS) you could conceivably overcome any problems. In the end, my thought was you have to consider whether you want to shoot better or fight better. Holding your rifle with the strong hand while drawing and firing the pistol weak hand (yeah I know) might be quicker in some cases, but you still have two hands full of shit. I would rather take that 1/2 second to clear one weapon and access the other so I am still ready to fight, i.e. the off-hand can still block/parry, punch, etc. The thought being that switching up to handgun is a close range solution so I want to be able to strike, block, etc, (not to mention move) as well as shoot. If you look at it, switching up to weak hand hold, and then drawing strong hand, is not that much slower, really. The rifle can then be dropped to hang, if you need the other hand. BTW going this route will allow you to sling strong side, which is far more comfortable for the other 23 1/2 hours you are caring the thing. So in theory, I like the way you're thinking, but in practice I think you'd be better off with a strong hand transition. One last point. You may use "alternate" transition tools, as Hawkeye's evil twin says. This would include knife, or even 'hawk (fuck you Mosby I think it's badass). So unless you can fight just as well left handed with ALL this shit, I'd stay with my dominate hand. See, I'm following in the footsteps of a mate of mine who is right handed, and a GPMG gunner. He carries lefty because it's easier to access even with the GPMG out of the ready position. I Like using a 3pt sling (it's what we're issued, and 1-2 point slings are wierd to me, and assuming it's out in 'single point' mode, it tends to drop directly to my right side***, straight down my bodyline. Totally get what you're saying, and I'm edging towards it being right, but as far as blades (bayonets, in my case) go, I've always carried THAT left side too (So you can mount it whilst maintaining control of the rifle.) *** and if the sling is 'open' in single point, the muzzle points directly down.
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Post by USMC0331 on Jul 30, 2014 14:45:55 GMT -5
That illustrates things. You are using your sling the wrong way! j/k With that "patrol" slinging the gun will definitely behave differently than the way mine does with it slung over the strong shoulder and not under it. Drop legs work if they are up high for me. I ran a 6004 with the one strap mod at first but eventually got tired of the strap even then. I use a drop panel from G-code that has a 6280 mounted to it via their adaptor and it rides just a little higher than the drop leg did for me. It's height is not so low that the draw stroke feels any different than my normal EDC placement.
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Post by panzer0170 on Jul 30, 2014 15:09:13 GMT -5
That illustrates things. You are using your sling the wrong way! j/k With that "patrol" slinging the gun will definitely behave differently than the way mine does with it slung over the strong shoulder and not under it. Drop legs work if they are up high for me. I ran a 6004 with the one strap mod at first but eventually got tired of the strap even then. I use a drop panel from G-code that has a 6280 mounted to it via their adaptor and it rides just a little higher than the drop leg did for me. It's height is not so low that the draw stroke feels any different than my normal EDC placement. I know you're joking, but that sling has SO MANY shagging uses, its brilliant. Useful for shoulder as a backpack (good for getting over obstacles and things) carries single point, or 2 point. Can be used (VERY good with bullpups!) as extra support for standing shooting. I look at 2 point slings and I see 'hunting rifle', and I see single point slings and I see 'short term, "high speed low drag" sling' type uses. I think for ME, my pistol needs to work around a 3 point sling.
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Post by panzer0170 on Jul 30, 2014 17:24:39 GMT -5
To add to what you said before: From what I hear, and from my experience, the ONLY way to carry drop leg is as high up as you can without wearing your holster as underwear...
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Post by USMC0331 on Jul 30, 2014 18:42:42 GMT -5
I am joking, I ran a 3pt as my first sling then a 1pt then an adjustable 2pt and now a simple 1" wide 2pt.
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Post by USMC0331 on Jul 30, 2014 18:44:33 GMT -5
Yes on high up. Safariland makes a single point leg drop now after years of people cutting their second strap off they got the hint. I would not pay extra for it though as the DIY versions work just as well.
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