|
|
Post by omnivorous on Jul 2, 2014 18:40:09 GMT -5
Alright, after some quick price shopping, the breakdown setting up the kit from scratch vs. starting with the pre-packaged kit and going from there, is as follows:
(Sourced from Chinook Medical Gear Inc., Rogue Gunfighter, and Amazon.com)
NVAMK $ 47.99
Celox RG Z-Fold $ 40.45
Benchmade 7 ~$ 35.00
SOFTT-W $ 29.89
W.H.I. Chemlight $ 12.42
Chinook Germpak $ 9.95
ARS Decomp Needle $ 9.75
Small Izzy $ 6.29
NPA $ 4.35
Durapore Tape 2" $ 2.88
TCCC Card $ 1.31
Total $200.28
NVAMK Kit $147.98
Benchmade 7 ~$ 35.00
W.H.I. Chemlight $ 12.42
ARS Decomp Needle $ 9.95
Small Izzy $ 6.29
Durapore Tape 2" $ 2.88
Total $214.52
Difference $ 14.24
I might be able to find slightly better deals in some places, but its just short of a $15 price difference between the two. I didn't include prices for things I already have, like 550 cord or mini fine-tipped sharpies, nor shipping. Kind of pricy,all told, but its one of those things that you really can't start putting too high a price on. I do think I may dump a item or two, for space considerations. I won't know until its all put together.
|
|
|
|
Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Jul 9, 2014 20:28:04 GMT -5
Okay, I'm coming in late to this thread so I'll ask a question.
The OP stated this would be an EDC rig in case you put holes in an assailant. I'm assuming that this would be for today's world and not a SHTF world, so why not go minimum and have something to stop the bleeding and maybe a pet. gauze?
The EMS would be still available and you don't want to be punching a needle in someone's chest unless you 1. Have been trained to do so in a formal school, not a survival med class and 2. You can verify that a tension pneumo is occurring...that is you have auscultated the chest and actually listened to lung sounds. You will have to answer in a court of law why you felt it was your job to put the needle in the chest and not wait til formal help arrived. Most states have a Good Samaritan Law, but it only covers you for basic stuff that a lay person with no formal training would normally do. Things like applying a pressure bandage, or TQ, CPR, etc. You may be okay putting Pet. gauze on a chest wound, but you start putting needles into places and you're opening yourself up to a lawsuit. If the person dies and the medical examiner sees a needle placed in the wrong location, or the needle was placed incorrectly (like on the wrong side or into an aorta) I hope you have good insurance or a large wallet. A SHTF world then it's a different story.
I don't carry an EDC med kit, but I have training and can stop most bleeding long enough for most EMS units to arrive in my AO. If I needed a TQ, I usually always have a belt that would do in a pinch until EMS gets on scene. If I thought a pneumothorax was occurring, I can usually find some sort of plastic to do a temporary seal.
If you want my idea on a basic EDC med kit it would be 1-2 pairs of gloves, a SWAT-T (can be used as a TQ or pressure bandage) and maybe a couple pet. gauze bandages and a cell phone to call EMS. That's it, nothing fancy, nothing big and bulky but would get most things covered long enough until the boys with their toys arrive and can do all the cool stuff. I'm a pretty even keeled guy, but when I worked the streets it really bothered me when some lay person did something poorly or incorrectly that jeopardized the life of the patient or made my job much harder to keep the person alive. I know they were just trying to help, but if they just did what they knew and not try stuff that they had seen on TV, things would have gone better.
Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
Post by omnivorous on Jul 9, 2014 21:49:02 GMT -5
Great info, thanks! (I work with, and am being further educated and trained with computers, all the time, so I'm used to others not being on them as much as myself.) Honestly, I really don't think I'm going to attempt to patch the holes I may be forced to put into some assailant, because I put those holes in them for a reason. Its more intended for myself, friend/loved one, or a bystander. The Celox RG Z-fold is a sterile gauze with an impregnated clot promoting agent. Your suggestion for a petroleum gauze is duly noted, though. I was researching that stuff, and I think I should definitely try to include some. I definitely wouldn't be putting a needle into someone's chest, given I don't have the training to do so, but there may just be someone who does who is without and it could be just the item they need. Given limited footprint and weight a decompression needle has, if I can include one, then why not? Always be prepared. I totally get having the knowledge base to fabricate improvise emergency medical equipment, but one of the points of this kit is to have it on me ready to go, and not have to scrounge around for pieces to MacGyver something. I totally respect the notion in the last half of your fourth paragraph. The capabilities of the kit I'd like to put together can be quickly exceeded in a mass casualty event, and I wouldn't try to be running around as if I'd be able to help more than getting myself and others out of the way as quickly as possible. 2 cents well appreciated.  |
|
|
|
Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Jul 10, 2014 9:14:46 GMT -5
Great info, thanks! (I work with, and am being further educated and trained with computers, all the time, so I'm used to others not being on them as much as myself.) Honestly, I really don't think I'm going to attempt to patch the holes I may be forced to put into some assailant, because I put those holes in them for a reason. Its more intended for myself, friend/loved one, or a bystander. The Celox RG Z-fold is a sterile gauze with an impregnated clot promoting agent. Your suggestion for a petroleum gauze is duly noted, though. I was researching that stuff, and I think I should definitely try to include some. I definitely wouldn't be putting a needle into someone's chest, given I don't have the training to do so, but there may just be someone who does who is without and it could be just the item they need. Given limited footprint and weight a decompression needle has, if I can include one, then why not? Always be prepared. I totally get having the knowledge base to fabricate improvise emergency medical equipment, but one of the points of this kit is to have it on me ready to go, and not have to scrounge around for pieces to MacGyver something. I totally respect the notion in the last half of your fourth paragraph. The capabilities of the kit I'd like to put together can be quickly exceeded in a mass casualty event, and I wouldn't try to be running around as if I'd be able to help more than getting myself and others out of the way as quickly as possible. 2 cents well appreciated. Your comment "The capabilities of the kit I'd like to put together can be quickly exceeded in a mass casualty event, and I wouldn't try to be running around as if I'd be able to help more than getting myself and others out of the way as quickly as possible." is spot on. There won't be an EDC med kit that could handle a mass casualty event, in fact even one EMS unit would be overwhelmed by a MCE, ask me how I know.... Remember, a tension pneumothorax is different from an open pneumothorax. An open only needs to be closed quickly and maybe won't develop into a tension pneumo. You are correct, that a needle is light weight and having one may help someone who would be on the scene and need it, however, unless the EMS was unable to get to you in a timely manner I would guess the trained person at the scene would wait until EMS arrived. That would allow more monitoring of the patient with O2 sats, listening to lung sounds, monitoring heart rate and rhythms and having more advanced airway management equipment before placing the needle. |
|
|
|
Post by whitebear620 on Jul 3, 2016 22:57:01 GMT -5
Was gonna start an EDC IFAK thread in the medical section, but saw this one luckily. What with all of the chaos going on(San Bernandino, Orlando, ect.), I thought it'd be a good idea to put my personal EDC IFAK out there in case someone was looking to put one together. Mine is a quart sized ziplock and fits in my left cargo pocket.
-CAT
-H&H compressed gauze
-Old school crevat, triangular bandage
-One pair gloves
-Chest seal x2 (need to buy this next paycheck, still slacking)
It's not the most high speed, but it'll do the job. Since I pretty much live in cargo pants/shorts, I always have this on me except when I'm out running (don't have a solution for that yet) or sleeping. This gets backed up by more supplies in the house/car, it won't do much for a mass cal, but it's better than having to remove my belt or shirt. Will post pictures when I get the chest seals.
|
|
|
|
EDC IFAK?
Jul 4, 2016 7:50:54 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by judomayhem on Jul 4, 2016 7:50:54 GMT -5
Looks good.
You can use the ziplock as an improvised chest seal (esp if it is one of the thicker "freezer" types). Also, I was told in CLS class that even when using a real Ashermans, you will probably need to also use medical tape to get a good seal. So add that to the kit.
|
|
|
|
Post by panzer0170 on Jul 4, 2016 12:15:02 GMT -5
Don't use an Asherman's chest seal if you can afford the nicer tri lugged, or the even nicer quad lugged ones. redundancy in the valves, built in chest hair stripper etc and wipes to get you a proper seal WITHOUT needing to apply bloody tape. Why carry something that's a workaround when you can carry a real solution? (money permitting)
|
|
|
|
Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Jul 6, 2016 12:52:27 GMT -5
Inexpensive chest seal is petroleum gauze. Folds easily and can be stored a long time. Some commercial seals don't fold/unfold well and still stick. It is easier for me to carry several of these than my Halos, and aschermans. My commercial seals are in my IFAK and patrol pack. My BOK has petroleum gauze as a go to first. Slap it on and watch. Allows you to either get back in the fight or gives you time to pull out or get to your car to retrieve the correct seal. Remember, carry two as you may have both entry and exit wounds.
|
|
