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Post by eddiewouldclearhot on Jun 26, 2014 17:01:40 GMT -5
Another point to consider, if its a small house, its easier to maneuver the rifle without a bayonet. If static, and shooting at close range, go for it.
remember rule number one: always look cool.
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Post by panzer0170 on Jun 26, 2014 17:04:59 GMT -5
Another point to consider, if its a small house, its easier to maneuver the rifle without a bayonet. If static, and shooting at close range, go for it. remember rule number one: always look cool. Rule 1: Passed! But yes, pain in the arse to move (but with a Tavor, perhaps less so. I've done it with an SA80[about the same length], and the main issue is if you have people in front of you, still nice and short overall.) Definitely likely to go static, in a HD scenario. Can't see the bayo knocking zero off at 10-15 yards (MAX!) and that would likely be all I would need it for (God forbid I ever needed the thing at all.)
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Post by omnivorous on Jun 26, 2014 22:11:27 GMT -5
Another point to consider, if its a small house, its easier to maneuver the rifle without a bayonet. If static, and shooting at close range, go for it. remember rule number one: always look cool. Rule 1: Passed! But yes, pain in the arse to move (but with a Tavor, perhaps less so. I've done it with an SA80[about the same length], and the main issue is if you have people in front of you, still nice and short overall.) Definitely likely to go static, in a HD scenario. Can't see the bayo knocking zero off at 10-15 yards (MAX!) and that would likely be all I would need it for (God forbid I ever needed the thing at all.) You are making your case for your specific application, I must say. Here's a relevant thread regarding mounting a bayonet on a Tavor, on bullpupforum.com: bullpupforum.com/index.php?topic=2996.0
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Post by USMC0331 on Jun 27, 2014 11:33:03 GMT -5
Bayonet charges are for when both sides are out of ammunition. Save your money and buy a PMAG loaded with 28rounds and you will have ammo to feed the gun with instead of needing a bayonet. Bayonet, really?
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winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
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Post by winter on Jun 27, 2014 14:08:26 GMT -5
OK Panzer, you seem dead set on bayoneting a bullpup rifle for some reason. If I can't change your mind, I'll support you.
Buy an M7 bayonet and buy a knife with the type of blade you want. Send both to me and I'll just build a custom bayonet for ya.
For a fee of course.
Excalibayonet
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Bayonets
Jun 28, 2014 8:49:33 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by panzer0170 on Jun 28, 2014 8:49:33 GMT -5
OK Panzer, you seem dead set on bayoneting a bullpup rifle for some reason. If I can't change your mind, I'll support you. Buy an M7 bayonet and buy a knife with the type of blade you want. Send both to me and I'll just build a custom bayonet for ya. For a fee of course. Excalibayonet I must admit. Logic is only PART of the decision. Partly I want one because I used to have one and it's a comfort blanket, partly it is the horror of ******, but I do still beleive they have their place. Now knowing the new marine thing doubles as a knife, and the issue with the tavor is there isn't enough barrel.. surely there is some way of adding a couple of inches (extended birdcage, or something similar) That will give me a 20" barrel and means I also have a half decent knife?) I like redundancy and multi-purpose. I'm not set on anything yet, not even in the country permanently, just throwing ideas around and playing devils advocate. Give it a year, I might not give a sh*t about a bayo Assuming a custom jobby, what are your thoughts on the Fairbairn-Sykes knives, as anything other than a stilletto for 'stabby' rather than 'cutty' use?
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winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
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Post by winter on Jun 28, 2014 14:09:22 GMT -5
FS knives are great for stabbing people and not much use for anything else.
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Post by panzer0170 on Jun 29, 2014 11:34:22 GMT -5
winter, I figured as much. All good info
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Post by m1a2abramsman on Oct 4, 2014 12:40:47 GMT -5
Just some info for you guys. Bayonet training has been removed from the Army's basic training curriculum. I went through in 2008 and it had already been removed. And I was combat arms.
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Bayonets
Oct 4, 2014 13:59:45 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by panzer0170 on Oct 4, 2014 13:59:45 GMT -5
Just some info for you guys. Bayonet training has been removed from the Army's basic training curriculum. I went through in 2008 and it had already been removed. And I was combat arms. Not here it hasn't. I did bayonet training last year, and that was 8 years in. Still taught @ basic. Depends how you intend to fight. For me it is very much a last resort. If I'm defending my home, assuming MN state law, I can't go find an intruder. I intend to defend a choke point upstairs. I don't reckon I'll ever have chance to change a magazine, god forbid I ever have to defend my family. I know it's not the best option, but it's AN option...
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Post by m1a2abramsman on Oct 4, 2014 21:57:04 GMT -5
Agreed. And I was shocked and disappointed that I wasn't taught to use a bayonet. I thought it was part of the basic soldering skill set. But then again, the powers that be have been systematically weakening our military for the last decade. Just another way for them to tie our hands behind our backs.
There was a squad of Marines caught in a firefight in Iraq a few years ago. The whole squad ran out of ammo so they fixed bayonets and charged the enemy. The Iraqis were so confused and scared by the charging Marines that they threw down their weapons and ran. It has a psychological intimidation factor to see your enemy with a large blade hanging off the end of his rifle.
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Post by omnivorous on Oct 4, 2014 23:07:04 GMT -5
Just some info for you guys. Bayonet training has been removed from the Army's basic training curriculum. I went through in 2008 and it had already been removed. And I was combat arms. I probably still wouldn't be accepted. That's some high-grade, government contracted BS right there. The cutting of bayonet training, that is!
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Post by hudson5969 on Oct 26, 2014 13:09:21 GMT -5
I have a bit of a different take on the bayonet.
These days I do not see much in the way of bayonets fixed on rifles in a fight. However, I think they do have a place, but only if they are also useful field knives. In my estimation, the only two that really qualify are the Ontario OKC-3S shown above, and the Zero Tolerance ZT9. Problem with the ZT is that it is Gucci gear and costs over $300. It's also S30V steel, which while nice being stainless, is a bitch to sharpen, even with diamond.
This leaves the OKC-3S. I'm rather surprised that folks find it heavy. It's a good bit lighter than the 1/4 inch thick offerings like the M9 (with it's crappy steel that doesn't like to take or keep an edge) or the ZT-9. It's also longer. It's basically a longer Ka-Bar with a muzzle ring.
I wanted to see if this was truly a multipurpose tool. Yes, I can stick it on the end of my rifle, but can it do woodcraft jobs, and do them well? Yes. Yes it can. The biggest complaint I hear is that with the bayonet ring, you can use it with your thumb on the spine. I don't use knives that way, so it isn't an issue. If you do, you can learn other ways to do the same job, and put less stress on the tendon in your thumb.
Which brings me to an often overlooked aspect of the bayonet: it's a good fighting knife. What most people think about knife fighting is based on the oriental fighting styles, which is probably all they know, but it has some critical problems. Mainly, it's not knife fighting so much as two people attacking each other with knives. Importantly, the bayonet has the muzzle ring and usually a part of the guard that sticks down the other way. These act as quillions -- something found on all fighting knives.
Quilions allow for blocks, parries, and blade captures, i.e. FIGHTING. With the typical FMA type knife stab, you have your thumb on the spine and drive the blade forward. This all sounds good until the other guy parries and runs his blade down the spine of yours.
So, in the end, if you are talking about an old spike bayonet, or one of the old soft bayonets that are not very useful for using as a knife (to include the M7 and M9, and many of the non-Russian Ak bayonets), then no, they aren't very worth it. Something like the OKC-3S or the ZT-9 if you can sharpen it and afford it, are multipurpose enough to be worth carrying, IMO.
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Post by omnivorous on Oct 27, 2014 17:24:36 GMT -5
The OKC-3S is probably the only other bayonet I'd want on my rig, aside from a properly made AK bayonet, if I was running one of those. Even then, though, the OKC-3S is more fightin' knife, than work knife, in my opinion. The swedge makes batoning with it difficult, especially if it is sharpened, and the the saber grid makes that task difficult as well. Personally, I don't care for plain/serrated combo edges on my knives, its one or the other for me. The guard is a nice thing to have on a fightin' knife, but when it as small as the one on the OKC-3S (its small in my opinion) it becomes much more useful for keeping one's hand and fingers from sliding down onto the edge, than it is useful for parrying motions. Such a short bladed weapon is very difficult to maintain control of in such a fashion, and blade-on-blade parrying motions are much more common, all be it blink-of-the-eye brief and not something which should be sought. The tempo wasted trying to parry a short bladed weapon the size of your typical, modern bayonet, is better spent using the edge of your blade on an adversary's hand, wrist, or forearm, in order to open them up for follow-on techniques.
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winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
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Post by winter on Oct 28, 2014 13:23:07 GMT -5
The tempo wasted trying to parry a short bladed weapon the size of your typical, modern bayonet, is better spent using the edge of your blade on an adversary's hand, wrist, or forearm, in order to open them up for follow-on techniques. Totally agree, it is still a parry though.
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