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Post by panzer0170 on Apr 14, 2014 12:04:13 GMT -5
So you're in your house and you hear something downstairs, or you're in the street and there is some sort of issue.
Is there something OTHER than your rifle/shotgun/handgun you have to hand, or indeed something you carry on a daily basis that allows you to escalate force for force? (For legal and of course moral reasons.)
If you've got an aggressive guy being threatening and acting violently, or you find someone who's broken into your home and is 17, stealing for drugs... Would you shoot? I know for my part I'd not want to shoot a teenager over a TV, or some other unimportant piece of electronics, meanwhile, I'd quite like to KEEP said electronics, and actually have the criminal arrested. What is legal, and what is a viable option?
Pepper spray is easy to hit yourself with, batons seem like a good choice with some knowledge, I've seen advertised 'taser' shotgun shells, but I have no idea if they're legal for non LE/Mil, or if they're what you'd want to use at all (There most still be some serious trauma).
Apologies for the brain dump, any and all thoughts welcome!
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Post by UnforseenWeather on Apr 14, 2014 12:59:49 GMT -5
If someone is willing to rob or steal for drugs, they may well be willing to kill for drugs. That said, every situation is different so it is tough to give a hard-and-fast answer to the shoot/no shoot scenario.
I do carry a quality pocketknife at all times and have carried good pepper spray in the past, particularly when carrying a gun is not an option.
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Post by panzer0170 on Apr 14, 2014 13:25:50 GMT -5
If someone is willing to rob or steal for drugs, they may well be willing to kill for drugs. That said, every situation is different so it is tough to give a hard-and-fast answer to the shoot/no shoot scenario. I do carry a quality pocketknife at all times and have carried good pepper spray in the past, particularly when carrying a gun is not an option. I totally get that, and I wouldn't even try to argue it. I've always been trained to escalate force (warning shots etc, right the way through to AH/CAS if needs be). If you're capable of stopping someone without lethal force it's my opinion (and I know that this is perhaps something that not everyone is going to agree on) that you should do everything you can to not use lethal force (whilst not compromising your own personal safety, or that of anyone else). That being said; pepper spray - why did you get rid? what did you like about it? I know for my part I've seen coppers end up getting themselves (wind blown back into face, or used in a closed environment). Are beanbag rounds legal in the US? (or specific states, I know laws change from state to state) If they are legal are they a viable option? (2 beanbag rounds, followed by as many lethal rounds as you can fit in a shotgun, for example.) On the WHOLE (it isn't perfect, but it works to a degree) our police aren't armed, and deal with idiots quite often. Now they wouldn't ever confront an armed man, but they do scale to taser then to 'full' armed response, and we're pretty good at getting them where they're needed, but then we're a much more compact nation. I'm just trying to explore what options are available in the US that are less than lethal, if one wanted to use less than lethal, but didn't want to wait for the police to turn up to do it. (To clarify; in the UK the sale of an ASP baton[and a thousand other things] is illegal outside police/mil use... and using ANYTHING as a premeditated weapon is illegal [for example owning a baseball bat FOR PROTECTION.] The law is dumb, but it is the law. Now if you had a collection of baseball bats, or you had one as a sports implement with a baseball and a glove? You can legally beat a man to death in self defence and walk away a free man (if you can prove that you did what you did in self defence, and within a reasonable escalation of force...) |
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Post by omnivorous on Apr 14, 2014 19:10:48 GMT -5
I wouldn't bother with less-than-lethal munitions for personal defence firearms. If its gotten to the point to where one needs to actively defend themselves with a firearm, not just brandish it to discourage some aggressor, then all bets are off, in my opinion. An escalation of force matrix should be utilized by ACs, but we have different concerns and rules of engagement (laws) to contend with, than LE/MIL. My state has very citizen friendly and supportive self-defence and concealed carry laws. I have an ASP 16" Agent baton I carry on occasion, but I wouldn't bother with pepper spray. I don't want to risk getting sprayed myself, and reducing my defensive capacities. I'm not LE, so I don't have to bother with trying to take someone into custody.
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