Type of Rig

[tarheel55]

Mods if this is in the wrong area I apologize.

I'm getting my gear straightened out (trying the tier setup based upon mission). For tier one I have a battle belt from HSGI and love it. Easy to don and comfortable.
So moving to the next tier:
For a Alpha Charlie (love that name and concept) which is practically better a chest rig or plate carrier. Let's assume both cost the same. Is it worth getting plates?

Thanks

[panzer0170]

Not sure if this shouldn't be in the gear section; I'm sure someone will move it for you if it needs to be!

For my part, I like the idea of pouches attached directly to the plates. But for flexibility chest rig over a slick PC allows you to wear the PC without the chest rig, or vice versa.

IMHO If you're going to train with guns, you wear ear protection, eye protection... why not protection for the vital organs? Assuming nothing in the world ever goes t*ts up, and you only ever use your plates on the range as safety gear... If you're going to do anything other than static range shoots, not wearing a plate carrier seems dumb. Now not everyone can afford plates, and that's fair enough. But if you can afford plates? I'd definitely get some.

[USMC0331]

Make Holes / Prevent Holes / Patch Holes

Rifle / Plates / BOK & Medic Skills

I rate plates as pretty important in that triangle. Having them is a two edged sword though. If they slow you down to the point where you can't make holes or others have a better chance to make holes in you, then you should not have them with you, but for 90% of the scenarios I can envision having a carbine on me... I want them on.

It's like Night Vision gear. Many of us lower it down our prep list because it costs so much and the likelihood of needing it is low UNLESS we need it. Kinda like a gun in general, I've carried one every day for over 10 years and never needed it, but the day I do, I will be glad I have it.

My preference is a chest harness over a slick plate carrier, more options and adjust-ability to the mission, which should drive the gear.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

If I'm planning on needing my rifle for patrolling my retreat area for possible bad guys after things go sideways, then why wouldn't I use plates? I have to assume they are armed and may be willing/wanting my things. Now, if some of the other guys are on patrol and I'm just doing chores around the camp, then my rifle will be close by and I'm just wearing my Minuteman Chest Rig. Plates are heavy and hot and uncomfortable....well, a round to the chest (even if it doesn't hit vitals) will really make for a bad day. Like Mosby and Max V says, PT more if need be.

Bottom line, you will have to decide your needs. You can get some decent steel plates thru AR500armor.com with a basic PC for a bit over $200 or the plates and a Banshee for about $375. Then maybe you'll be the lucky one to win the 200 member give-away that UW Gear is holding when we hit that magic number.

It's funny, and I've done it myself, we will buy a second or third rifle with accessories and ammo and not think twice but when it comes to PC and armor we hem and haw. We can put holes in things, so we better protect ourselves from holes or we will be patching holes.

[tarheel55]

So it sounds like having both is best. So would a slick side plate carrier with a molle II flc vest be a good combo? Wear the vest over my clothing or over armor.

Thanks

[USMC0331]

www.skdtac.com/PIG-Brig-Plate-Carrier-SYSTEMA-p/pig.400.htm



My birthday present. If you are in a war, then low profile is not an issue. SHTF, people are going to look at those who "have" and come take it. If you are all kitted up, the natural assumption is that you have something very worth protecting and given time and massing numbers on the OPFOR, you will become a target worth taking.

The ability to look non-threatening usually requires we forgo plates, but with a slick rig you can "from a distance" not stick out. I plan to experiment with that distance using observers when I get my setup above. There are many pictures of guys looking "normal" with a slick carrier under an oversized shirt. I think this layering method has great merit.

The other option is to go without protection and hope you get to cover. Problem is.... unless you are the aggressor, you ALWAYS start from an initiative deficit! Hidden plates help even that deficit. Exterior plates just tell the BG to shoot you in the head.

[Patriotic Sheepdog]

Banshee PC with AR500 front and rear plates. I have the side plates as well, but don't always wear them. Probably should start.
On top of the banshee I wear the UW Gear Minuteman or Swampfox. On the back is a ROP by Tactical Tailor with a camelbak hydration carrier.

I have a triple mag carrier that can attach to the front of the banshee if I wanted, but then that limits me. If I felt like I needed to ditch the banshee in an E&E situation (so I could move a bit faster), then I have no way to carry my mags.

Just what works for me at this time in my life. YMMV.

[omnivorous]

Conceal-ability is one consideration for a slick plate carrier, but I think another one is for use with winter clothing. I would think it would be easier, and better, to wear the plate carrier under winter garments, than over. First consideration is comfort, since one would want their plates worn close to the body, and not pushed out and potentially shifting around, because of a layer or several are between the PC and one's torso. A second consideration, and this goes along with wearing a PC over several layers of clothing, and if one is utilizing side plates as well, is there may be a gap formed, or widened, between the front/back and side plates. A third cold weather consideration for use of a slick PC under one's outer winter clothing, would be if one were to go inside, or warm-up enough, and their the outer layers of clothing wouldn't be necessary for the time being, yet the continued need to wear the PC is still present. One could remove those outer layers, without having remove the PC first.

[USMC0331]

@ omnivorous, very good points, hadn't really thought about that.

[currahee]

I'm re-writing the relevant section of my web page-

this is it in a nutshell. There are basically three possible layouts for 1st and second line gear- listed in the order you should get them by likelihood of need (for realistic situations)

#1 Low-profile/CCW rig- this is your normal EDC rig, At a minimum it should have pistol/holster, spare pistol mag/mags, flashlight and knife. You should always have a BOK in your car. If you are in a situation where a rifle may become necessary then you can conceal a spare rifle mag on your belt and/or wear a 5.11 type vest with spare mags/BOK/COMs

#2 Light rig - for when you don't expect a fight but it is more likely and being discrete is not necessary (not to confuse "being discrete" with a woodland recce operation) or when you need to move fast/far on foot. This iw where your chest rig fits in. Your chest rig should have spare rifle ammo, BOK and comms. Belt might be more "field oriented" but include the same stuff as the CCW rig- including a spare rifle mag and BOK.

#3 Heavy rig - for when you expect a fight, especially when you do not have to move far or are moving by vehicle. This is where the plate carrier fits in. Plate carrier should have the same stuff as the chest rig and probably more rifle mags.

[hudson5969]

If I was doing urban ops, I'd consider plates pretty essential due to the tight quarters, the fact that bullets like to ricochet, and the likelihood that I'd be transported by vehicle, and probably have water resupply readily available.

In my most likely rural scenario, I won't use plates. I live in the south and it's too bleeding hot here. I can't take the heat well to begin with, and I'd be a heat casualty before I had the chance to get shot. Personal problem? maybe, but it's a real one for me.

[panzer0170]

Oct 26, 2014 15:33:42 GMT -5 hudson5969 said:

If I was doing urban ops, I'd consider plates pretty essential due to the tight quarters, the fact that bullets like to ricochet, and the likelihood that I'd be transported by vehicle, and probably have water resupply readily available.

In my most likely rural scenario, I won't use plates. I live in the south and it's too bleeding hot here. I can't take the heat well to begin with, and I'd be a heat casualty before I had the chance to get shot. Personal problem? maybe, but it's a real one for me.

Why do you say you'd be vehicle borne in Urban Areas? Everything I've ever seen goes against that idea. It's harder to fight from vehicles, distances are generally so small that you'd be wasting the vehicle, and a lot of urban areas have whole sections that vehicles are going to be totally wasted. Given you either have to leave a 'guard' with the vehicle or make it unroadworthy (perhaps remove the battery - but are you going to carry it?)

I would suggest if anything, that you're more likely to use a vehicle in Rural operations - Why patrol 4-5k across flat, open terrain (obviously, this is terrain dependant. For those of you that live in a swamp, this isn't a thing) when you can cross it in minutes, allowing you to either A) patrol further or B) patrol the same distance faster, and rest more or achieve something else (farming, anyone?)

[hudson5969]

Because I live in rural areas (the aforementioned swamp, actually), and really the only time I'd be in an urban area when stuff goes down is if it goes down while I'm at work, and I'll be doing everything I can to drive out, not walk out. BTW, my work is about 850 yards or so from an interchange where I can take the interstate, a fairly rural 2-lane road, with several roads going off of it on the way home, or a very rural road the whole way. That translates to about 3 streets of "urban combat", and my primary fighting would be using my pistol to shoot people off of my Jeep.

I realize this is very specific to my circumstance, but my circumstance is the one I am preparing for.

[panzer0170]

Fair enough. That makes sense in the short/mid term (hours/days). If I may, let me add these thoughts;

If you can drive out, chances are you aren't going to have to fight ( I say this, given car density in urban areas I've seen in the US, because it either seems to be relatively normal traffic, or outright gridlock I am assuming in a panic, the latter will apply, and if the former is still a thing then things aren't bad enough you need to fight). If you can't drive out... That vehicle isn't a part of the equation anymore.

[hudson5969]

Like I said, I don't plan on doing much fighting in urban areas other than shooting people off the vehicle while moving out.

Having plates in a vehicle is good, because you are a relatively stationary target in the vehicle, and everybody know where to shoot. If I had to go to a ground game from the vehicle, the armor would not stay on long because of the aforementioned heat problem.

Urban fighting isn't my thing although I guess it's one of the "cool things" these days because people see themselves doing all the cool footwork and stuff, but the city is the last place I want to be if the world takes that big left turn.