SA80....A3?

[panzer0170]

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Currently only 10 in existence. Not much in the way of a change, if we're honest, but I'm glad they've at least taken SOME of the bulk of the quad rail away. I still prefer the old plastic smooth guard, but it has no way to locate 'toys'. Shame M-LOK isn't yet old enough to be considered 'war proof', else I could see it being perfect for the forearm. Appear to have done some freefloat work as well for improved accuracy (that said, I think the SA80 has ALWAYS been above average in accuracy (if not other factors)).

Could be interesting.

Oh, and they've painted it so it matches the uniforms! *eyeroll*

[trailrunner909]

Interesting. Thought they would have transitioned to the c8 or hk416. Seemed to have been doing that in bits and pieces for the past decade.

But then they adopted the elcan lds when they had been having success with acogs.

Panzer are you fully sold on bullpups?

[panzer0170]

ELCAN has been in the lines for a looong time. ACOGs were bought as a UOR purchase, which was basically regimental commanders given authority to purchase XYZ. ACOGs were seen on US rifles and it was made to happen.

I don't personally know WHY the switch was made, but I've seen, handled and used both scopes, and the ELCAN sits better on the SA80; The ACOG sits a little weird for getting a good sight picture.

AR's have been in use with the UKSF community since the 1960s (Oman). British SF have been wearing US combats since the early 2000s *to my knowledge* (Iraq).

I am as sold on bullpups as I am on long rifles. I think long rifles are front heavy and hard to point... Except some of them aren't. Bullpups don't fire left handed... except the ones that do.

I've played with the AUG, but I don't like that the SOP for a stoppered round in the chamber is REMOVE BARREL.

The SA80, in it's early A2 form was a nice, mentally light (because of where the weight was held), easy to point thing that I could get decent hits out to 600 with OUT of the prone position (mostly, but not entirely supported kneeling and standing). The quad rail and all the other shit they've given us like LLM etc makes the thing.... Fat. All over fat.

I have handled, in a shop, a Tavor, and it reminds me of the middle SA80, but with apparent improvements, better reliability and can be fired on the off shoulder... The X95 seems to be wavering in terms of accuracy, but still seems good enough for a fighting rifle assuming you're playing 0-3.

That daft DTA SRS thing is a bullpup, and appears to be a powerhouse tack driver, and open minded people seem to have adopted it nicely to work the rearwards based bolt.

Overall I'd say yes I am... Because I really don't go 'bullpup or not' as my first choice.

What I want is:

Low recoil.
Light.
Short/Compact.
Powerful.
Easy to point/snap shoot.
Easy to maintain a target for time.
RELIABLE.

The more of those I can get out of any one rifle, with reliable as an absolute necessary? The better, bullpup or not.

I would take an SA80 to war, I wouldn't take an RDB, I'd be dubious over an AUG, I THINK I'd take a tavor, but I need time behind one to find out. I'd love to get my hands on an SRS, and I look forward to seeing what the 7.62 MDR is like!

[whitebear620]

I don't think they made the SA80 the color to match the uniforms, they just made it what all rifles should comes as:earth toned
One thing that I've never quite figured out is how iron sites are on a bullpup, I shoot nose to charging handle on the AR and I'd have no reference point on a bullpup, but I've never actually got to hold one in my hands so maybe it's as simple as it's just naturally where you always are or maybe placing a small strip of tape on the stock for reference, I did this with A2 stocks in the army because I have short arms...
That being said, the only reason I don't own a bullpup is that my AR was a third of the cost of a bullpup.

[panzer0170]

Sept 8, 2016 15:45:34 GMT -5 whitebear620 said:

I don't think they made the SA80 the color to match the uniforms, they just made it what all rifles should comes as:earth toned
One thing that I've never quite figured out is how iron sites are on a bullpup, I shoot nose to charging handle on the AR and I'd have no reference point on a bullpup, but I've never actually got to hold one in my hands so maybe it's as simple as it's just naturally where you always are or maybe placing a small strip of tape on the stock for reference, I did this with A2 stocks in the army because I have short arms...
That being said, the only reason I don't own a bullpup is that my AR was a third of the cost of a bullpup.

That's what it said in the breifing!

Naturally, it's because the uniform works well for camo, and so they're extending that...

As for Iron sights on the SA80? If you had a scope you didn't have irons (less the 'backup' battle sight on the SUSAT) If you had Irons the rear 'carrying handle' style sight was, when issuing a rifle, place after getting you to take a natural position, cheek to the rifle, for appropriate eye relief. Simples

[trailrunner909]

Why more weapons don't come from the factory finished in earth tones is beyond me.

If you come from shooting irons on an ar15 pretty much any weapons iron sights are going to feel subpar. Only major exception would be the m1/m14. The buis on the tavor (only bullpup irons I've used) are pretty horrible. They are adequate as a backup when you consider the high quality options available in optics.

Had not considered the cheek weld issues using the acog on an sa80. I just have had bad experiences with elcans in the past so am very prejudice. I know they have worked through most of the shifting zero issues, but it just doesn't seem to be robust enough for a general issue optic.

I am hoping iwi resolves its accuracy problem with the x95. I will probably buy 2 when they get it sorted.

[panzer0170]

Sept 8, 2016 16:25:50 GMT -5 trailrunner909 said:

Why more weapons don't come from the factory finished in earth tones is beyond me.

If you come from shooting irons on an ar15 pretty much any weapons iron sights are going to feel subpar. Only major exception would be the m1/m14. The buis on the tavor (only bullpup irons I've used) are pretty horrible. They are adequate as a backup when you consider the high quality options available in optics.

Had not considered the cheek weld issues using the acog on an sa80. I just have had bad experiences with elcans in the past so am very prejudice. I know they have worked through most of the shifting zero issues, but it just doesn't seem to be robust enough for a general issue optic.

I am hoping iwi resolves its accuracy problem with the x95. I will probably buy 2 when they get it sorted.

From what I gather USSOCOM likes the ELCAN these days, the variable job. I've never seen an issue with ours, or with older canadian gear I've played with (though that stuff was CHUNKY). Didn't even realise they'd HAD shifting zero issues.

I would have to get hold of, and ideally 'try before I buy', to see how big a problem it ACTUALLY is. Realistically, if you have no intention if shooting at medium range (home defence, urban, heavily wooded areas or rolling terrain...) then it's really not a problem, if all you want to do is be able to drop a human. Again... Need some first hand knowledge and experience.