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Post by whitebear620 on Jul 30, 2016 11:09:00 GMT -5
Found this gem: mobile.journals.lww.com/jtrauma/_layouts/15/oaks.journals.mobile/articleviewer.aspx?year=2016&issue=07000&article=00014It is a lot of reading, but short story of it is that TQs are important but most active shooter injuries are lately happening to the head and chest, one of the leading causes of death being tension pneumothorax. Numerous reasons for this listed in the article, such as the fact that most civilians aren't walking around in rifle plates. Kind of a smack in the head for me because I was gonna start teaching my roommate how to use a TQ and try to get him to carry one (still gonna work on it) since he actually frequents clubs and other such places, but maybe it's a little more important to work on getting him to carry chest seals first since TQs are easier to improvise. |
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Post by trailrunner909 on Jul 30, 2016 13:25:39 GMT -5
I think if someone is going to go through the hassle of carrying either, it wouldn't be much of a stretch to carry both.
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Post by ncregularguy on Jul 30, 2016 16:48:09 GMT -5
I didn't take time to read the link in the OP. I am going off of Whitebear's synopsis of it. I will make these statements: 1. TQs stop bleeding and are designed to keep someone from bleeding out in minutes. Emphasis is on the minutes and not very many of them. 2. Tension pneumothoraxes build up over time, much longer than someone who would bleed out without a TQ. Possibly hours depending on the situation, but for sure more than just minutes. trauma.org/archive/thoracic/CHESTtension.html3. Chest seals do NOTHING to top a tension pneumothorax. 4. A needle D (decompression), followed by a chest tube is the treatment for a tension pneumo, not a chest seal. This is covered in the bottom portion of the link above. 5. There is a difference between a tension pneumothorax and a standard pneumothorax. Generally, one leads to the other over time. www.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_difference_between_pneumothorax_and_tension_pneumothoraxTake care, K |
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Post by whitebear620 on Jul 30, 2016 17:13:25 GMT -5
NC, Reason that they're focusing on chest seals over TQs is that most survivable injuries in these shootings are in the chest area, mission drives gear but I do agree that everyone should carry a TQ. Correct that chest seals do nothing to stop tension pneumothorax, haven't had my soda yet today.  To be frank, I don't carry a needle for NCD in my EDC kit because it's been way too long since I've practiced it and also my EDC first aid kit is to help until the paramedics arrive. Recent events have me thinking hard about it but there's only so much I can fit in my cargoes. |
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Post by ncregularguy on Jul 30, 2016 18:36:19 GMT -5
These medical items are like tools.
Sometimes you need a screwdriver, sometimes a wrench, and sometimes a hammer.
Rarely is one a 'great' substitute for another (yes, you can pound on something with a wrench, just as you can use Kerlix gauze and an elastic bandage to substitute for an Israeli dressing), however there are many ways to improvises items you do not carry with you.
TQs are pretty easy to improvise.
Chest seals, as long as you have some good quality tape and some plastic, you're GTG.
Needles, not so much.
I'm mainly speaking from a military perspective here, since I'm still in. In a civilian capacity, I wouldn't be putting needles into anybody. You save their life and they sue you. They die and their family sues you. Call 911 and let the professionals with insurance for lawsuits handle it if you don't know the patient/victim.
Just my opinion.
Take care,
K
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Post by whitebear620 on Jul 31, 2016 15:47:25 GMT -5
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Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Jul 31, 2016 18:26:11 GMT -5
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Post by whitebear620 on Jul 31, 2016 18:55:55 GMT -5
Good to know, wasn't up to speed on whether vented or unvented was in preference right now. The chest seals link I posted are for vented ones.
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8up
New Member
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Post by 8up on Aug 7, 2016 22:10:00 GMT -5
I'm big fan of Russel and asherman cs. I usually pair them with either halo or fox cs, whichever is on sale. I still also teach old school Vaseline gauze method for those who carry them.
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Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Aug 8, 2016 8:07:22 GMT -5
8up,
I still teach old school petroleum gauze as well and like ascherman. Again, like I said in the TQ thread, find one you can use and use effectively.
And remember, just because you slap a seal in place doesn't mean your job is done and the patient won't continue to deteriorate.
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