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Post by panzer0170 on Mar 2, 2016 8:50:25 GMT -5
I am considering options.
I have no experience with extended operations in snowy environments. I've worked in the field when we've got a foot or two of snow, but only for 2-3 days at a time, and it sucked because the standard issued gear =/= built for snow, here.
Given the general bulk of ECW gear, as well as a requirement to carry food, water and ammo I'm looking for a pack that is capable of sustaining someone outside 'indefinitely' (though I'm aware that that is impossible without resupply, I suppose what I'm saying is that it's capable of keeping the user self sufficient for as long as possible.)
So, unless someone re-educates me otherwise, I'm looking for the following criteria;
Maximum volume) Ideally a large main compartment that sleeping gear can be stowed in without compression. Easy in, easy out.
Pockets/compartments) Easy access to things, as well as seperating gear/food/etc out so you only have to access what you want in the moment.
No zips) Or as few as possible. They're a PITA with gloves and from my experience they seize up in sub-zero conditions.
I'm well aware of the habit of getting a big bag and filling it because the space is there. I'm also capable of not doing that because I've learned that lesson the hard way. I can fill an issued PLCE Bergan (The style of which I really like) and only really be carrying the bare minimum in terms of sustainment load, with a daysack tucked inside.
Thoughts? Suggestions on actual bits of kit? Tips from experience?
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winter
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Post by winter on Mar 2, 2016 15:40:34 GMT -5
I've spent a lot of time in deep snow, but I don't pretend to be an expert because I was never really that comfortable. I'm not sure anybody is real comfy in deep snow.
You need snowshoes and maybe a sled. Doing Army shit in extreme cold we used a huge sled called an ahkio that carried the teams gear minus your personal ruck. Now they make small sleds that could be used to carry everything, to include axes and saws, but your web gear. Search "hiking sled" or "pulk".
Having a heavy pack in deep snow sucks. When you, inevitably, have to go prone, the pack will shove your body into the snow and leave you upside down hanging from your snowshoes which are stuck in the surface snow. It's hard enough getting up from that without a pack on, with a pack, you almost always need assistance.
A sled will work in as little as 2-3 inches of snow and makes you lower profile then a huge tick on your back does.
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Post by panzer0170 on Mar 2, 2016 18:42:57 GMT -5
I've seen the pulks, one of the big US gear firms makes them. I take it then that I can just assume a Pulk is an essential, in place of a bergan? What about assault packs? Still viable or find another option there too?
Thanks for info so far; Wasn't sure if bags were viable instead of a pulk or not!
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Post by judomayhem on Mar 3, 2016 0:45:40 GMT -5
I've not operated in snow, but if I were you I would study the natives that lived in your AO and try to mimic what they did, only with you having the benefit of modern gear.
As far as packs go, take a(nother?) gander at the US Army's molle. I still carry my smaller Alice when I can get away with it, but the molle probably fits most of your design requirements and is quite comfortable when adjusted properly. The bottom half holds my entire MSS and woobie easily, and I don't bother using stuff sacks. I just jam the whole thing in pretty easily, and it comes out quick as well. I added canteen/general purpose pouches to the lower part of each side and those are where I keep my snivel gear and often used items. The standard side pouches are pretty huge, to the point where I use freezer ziplocks to further organize items stowed in them. Lashing jackets and such to the outside wouldn't be to hard, and would free up interior space for food and other things that would keep you alive. Getting one in Multicam would probably be smart, but UCP (ACU) isn't too shabby, despite what the internet experts say. It works well in the snow, too.
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Post by trailrunner909 on Mar 3, 2016 1:09:42 GMT -5
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karl
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Post by karl on Mar 3, 2016 12:34:23 GMT -5
I'd have to agree that the Large MOLLE ruck is probably one of the better choices for this. It's huge, and one reason I like it, is that it's huge enough to hold my sleep system uncompressed. Another is that the external frame allows much of your parka insulation to stay lofty on your back, rather than compress it all. The external frame also makes it very easy to lashed to a pulk.
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winter
Junior Member
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Post by winter on Mar 3, 2016 14:38:03 GMT -5
I've seen the pulks, one of the big US gear firms makes them. I take it then that I can just assume a Pulk is an essential, in place of a bergan? What about assault packs? Still viable or find another option there too? Thanks for info so far; Wasn't sure if bags were viable instead of a pulk or not! There's always the possibility you could lose the pulk. A small pack with survival and fighting gear might be good to keep on you as opposed to on the sled. I also wouldn't pack loose shit on the sled, I'd put a large pack on the sled so that I can put it on if need be. |
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Post by Ivarr Bergmann on Jun 3, 2016 14:49:23 GMT -5
I am considering options. I have no experience with extended operations in snowy environments. I've worked in the field when we've got a foot or two of snow, but only for 2-3 days at a time, and it sucked because the standard issued gear =/= built for snow, here. Given the general bulk of ECW gear, as well as a requirement to carry food, water and ammo I'm looking for a pack that is capable of sustaining someone outside 'indefinitely' (though I'm aware that that is impossible without resupply, I suppose what I'm saying is that it's capable of keeping the user self sufficient for as long as possible.) So, unless someone re-educates me otherwise, I'm looking for the following criteria; Maximum volume) Ideally a large main compartment that sleeping gear can be stowed in without compression. Easy in, easy out. Pockets/compartments) Easy access to things, as well as seperating gear/food/etc out so you only have to access what you want in the moment. No zips) Or as few as possible. They're a PITA with gloves and from my experience they seize up in sub-zero conditions. I'm well aware of the habit of getting a big bag and filling it because the space is there. I'm also capable of not doing that because I've learned that lesson the hard way. I can fill an issued PLCE Bergan (The style of which I really like) and only really be carrying the bare minimum in terms of sustainment load, with a daysack tucked inside. Thoughts? Suggestions on actual bits of kit? Tips from experience? Your PLCE Bergen should suit you well. From my experiences the long back is over all much better then the short back. Ive used both here in Alaska. Its claimed they are both the same capacity but the short back has a lot of its capacity measured it the throat sleeve of the main compartment. Its a farce. Im wishing i had have gotten the long back but thats that now.. Short Back  Long Back..   Ive had extensive experience with a pull sled. They have pro's and cons depending on terrain and forests debris congestion. I never attach them to my body with a pole. Some ppl like that. I do not. Body heat regulation is often much easier with the sled then humping a ruck but inevitably you will find places the sled simply will not go and its becomes a liability and burden. You'll think its easier to just put the ruck on your back. It very well be a personal preference. Terrain always dictates tactic. I suggest a thoroughly scouted AO ...     Your going to alone- Its survival, not with the military so my thoughts are forget the machine mindset. It becomes quite irrelevant when you're alone and w/o the force of a governmental machine to save you and supply you.. 2 main things about dealing with snow: 1. Respect the water coming at you from inside (perspiration) and 2. Respect the wetness that can get you from the outside (contact wetness from melting snow). Its unbelievable how fast either can sneak up and fuk you ..All in all I dont know you so It really comes down to how much time you get out and learn your own body dealing with snow. From how to sleep in it with your tolerances, to how you pace yourself with physical activity or dealing with temperature regulation metabolically or with cold weather clothing. Diet, physical fitness, kit, skills with kit (yes ppl can even make a mess of this with a rucksack that cause catastrophic things to happen. Death by rucksack is a real thing) and wilderness skills are a cycle that will support one another for a successful duration. Also I never go out w/o at least one can of Bacon Spam in my kit. Its high fat content can save your life. Its cheap and effective if you can tolerate the salt. Also wool: Never underestimate the magic of this ancient material.. There is a lot I could tell you about back up kit in regards to using a sled or cold weather existences as to what Ive gotten from it thus far. Packing a sled is important too. Quality bungees that can hold the sled together when it topples is important. Different level of kit from critical to expendable need to be observed as well.. Ivarr |
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Post by panzer0170 on Jun 4, 2016 6:10:46 GMT -5
Just looking at pictures, your longback appears NOT to sit on webbing how I would expect. I dislike the longback because of the fact both are designed to sit on webbing and when the longback does I find it rides so high that it pokes the back of my head constantly, driving me insane.
That said, if you recommend the longback I do have a very similar bag, based around that design with some 'extras', because it's a civvy pack. Also designed to ride at belt height which gets rid of the frustrating problem.
Cheers for all the info, I shall have to read and actually digest before I ask any more questions!
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Post by Ivarr Bergmann on Jun 4, 2016 6:14:42 GMT -5
No worries.. i threw it up on the fly so if you have a need for any elaboration, feel free to ask.. I know its summer time so no hurry..
Also I wasn't wearing webbing in the Long Back pic. Just a DPM "Kayak bag" on a shoulder strap so it may appear off..
Ivarr
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Post by panzer0170 on Jun 4, 2016 6:25:49 GMT -5
Hah, even our winters don't need me to play with this; I'm mostly planning for years in advance, given my eventual plan is to move to MN, seems flat enough for pulk/sled type affair to be valid, lots of open ground and it ALWAYS gets the snow  |
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Post by odgreen on Jun 24, 2016 22:44:47 GMT -5
I have used plenty of sleds to haul gear in the snow in MN, and even lived for a winter on top of a mountain in CO. Sometimes you can get around in just good pac boots, other times you will need snow shoes or cross country skis. The sleds can also be used in non-snow environments if you strap some canoe/kayak wheels to them using some ratcheting tie-downs.
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