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Boots
Aug 5, 2014 7:22:02 GMT -5
Post by Diz on Aug 5, 2014 7:22:02 GMT -5
As an update, I have re-considered my stand on boots (!) While I'm still a big fan of all leather, stitched down hiking boots, I am no longer buying gtx-lined boots. So if you can find a good pair of boots without the lining (even if you have to go overseas with Altberg, Meindl, etc) I would scarf them up for future use.
First of all, I'm finding the lower boots, say in the 4"-6" range, work better in our terrain. When combined with a gaitor, you have as much pro from the elements (if not more) than the taller boots. Here I'm more worried about mud, bugs, n crap than a sprained ankle. The contour lines in our AO are measured in inches not feet. Yes, dorthy, it's that flat.
Second, a lighter-weight boot is important for mobility. Again, in our AO, we are not "crag-hopping" over rocky terrain that eats up lighter boots. Lowland swamps are the order of the day. We need something for rapid movement through wetlands. So the light weight "sneaker cousins" would work well here for us.
Last, the gtx membrane has proven to be more a hindrance than a help. They wear out and leak quickly, and are very slow to dry out. I think a much better choice is going back old school with a waxed water-proof coating, and a good gaitor, on a non-lined heavy boot. Or just a gaitor on a light weight boot. WP socks such as Sealskins can be used with either as required.
I will keep my heavy duty boots to have when needed, but for everyday affairs, the lighter weight boots will be used. The lack of re-solability will be off-set by stocking up, and knowing that the terrain will not eat them up as rapidly.
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Boots
Aug 5, 2014 9:34:37 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by panzer0170 on Aug 5, 2014 9:34:37 GMT -5
As an update, I have re-considered my stand on boots (!) While I'm still a big fan of all leather, stitched down hiking boots, I am no longer buying gtx-lined boots. So if you can find a good pair of boots without the lining (even if you have to go overseas with Altberg, Meindl, etc) I would scarf them up for future use. First of all, I'm finding the lower boots, say in the 4"-6" range, work better in our terrain. When combined with a gaitor, you have as much pro from the elements (if not more) than the taller boots. Here I'm more worried about mud, bugs, n crap than a sprained ankle. The contour lines in our AO are measured in inches not feet. Yes, dorthy, it's that flat. Second, a lighter-weight boot is important for mobility. Again, in our AO, we are not "crag-hopping" over rocky terrain that eats up lighter boots. Lowland swamps are the order of the day. We need something for rapid movement through wetlands. So the light weight "sneaker cousins" would work well here for us. Last, the gtx membrane has proven to be more a hindrance than a help. They wear out and leak quickly, and are very slow to dry out. I think a much better choice is going back old school with a waxed water-proof coating, and a good gaitor, on a non-lined heavy boot. Or just a gaitor on a light weight boot. WP socks such as Sealskins can be used with either as required. I will keep my heavy duty boots to have when needed, but for everyday affairs, the lighter weight boots will be used. The lack of re-solability will be off-set by stocking up, and knowing that the terrain will not eat them up as rapidly. You can resole Altbergs! (And Lowa's, and Meindl's.) But srsly. I live 'close' by American standards, to the Altberg factory. Their stuff is cracking quality, and is waterproofed with boot polish. Cheap, simple, and they have heavy AND light boots. Only issue is the price tag, they are not cheap, esp if you want to import them! Cracking boots though. And totally agree with sealskinz socks. They are mega, used right.
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Post by Patriotic Sheepdog on Aug 5, 2014 19:15:21 GMT -5
As an update, I have re-considered my stand on boots (!) While I'm still a big fan of all leather, stitched down hiking boots, I am no longer buying gtx-lined boots. So if you can find a good pair of boots without the lining (even if you have to go overseas with Altberg, Meindl, etc) I would scarf them up for future use. First of all, I'm finding the lower boots, say in the 4"-6" range, work better in our terrain. When combined with a gaitor, you have as much pro from the elements (if not more) than the taller boots. Here I'm more worried about mud, bugs, n crap than a sprained ankle. The contour lines in our AO are measured in inches not feet. Yes, dorthy, it's that flat. Second, a lighter-weight boot is important for mobility. Again, in our AO, we are not "crag-hopping" over rocky terrain that eats up lighter boots. Lowland swamps are the order of the day. We need something for rapid movement through wetlands. So the light weight "sneaker cousins" would work well here for us. Last, the gtx membrane has proven to be more a hindrance than a help. They wear out and leak quickly, and are very slow to dry out. I think a much better choice is going back old school with a waxed water-proof coating, and a good gaitor, on a non-lined heavy boot. Or just a gaitor on a light weight boot. WP socks such as Sealskins can be used with either as required. I will keep my heavy duty boots to have when needed, but for everyday affairs, the lighter weight boots will be used. The lack of re-solability will be off-set by stocking up, and knowing that the terrain will not eat them up as rapidly. Okay, you speak of Gaitors, what is a good brand. I've always wanted a set but scared to spend big bucks on a pair I know nothing about. Swamp stomping with Gaitors is fine, as long as I'm not swamp stomping with gators, lol. Is there a pair that would be good for snake bite protection? The diamondbacks, cotton mouths and pygmy's are abundant here in swamp town.
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Boots
Aug 6, 2014 5:37:08 GMT -5
Post by panzer0170 on Aug 6, 2014 5:37:08 GMT -5
As an update, I have re-considered my stand on boots (!) While I'm still a big fan of all leather, stitched down hiking boots, I am no longer buying gtx-lined boots. So if you can find a good pair of boots without the lining (even if you have to go overseas with Altberg, Meindl, etc) I would scarf them up for future use. First of all, I'm finding the lower boots, say in the 4"-6" range, work better in our terrain. When combined with a gaitor, you have as much pro from the elements (if not more) than the taller boots. Here I'm more worried about mud, bugs, n crap than a sprained ankle. The contour lines in our AO are measured in inches not feet. Yes, dorthy, it's that flat. Second, a lighter-weight boot is important for mobility. Again, in our AO, we are not "crag-hopping" over rocky terrain that eats up lighter boots. Lowland swamps are the order of the day. We need something for rapid movement through wetlands. So the light weight "sneaker cousins" would work well here for us. Last, the gtx membrane has proven to be more a hindrance than a help. They wear out and leak quickly, and are very slow to dry out. I think a much better choice is going back old school with a waxed water-proof coating, and a good gaitor, on a non-lined heavy boot. Or just a gaitor on a light weight boot. WP socks such as Sealskins can be used with either as required. I will keep my heavy duty boots to have when needed, but for everyday affairs, the lighter weight boots will be used. The lack of re-solability will be off-set by stocking up, and knowing that the terrain will not eat them up as rapidly. Okay, you speak of Gaitors, what is a good brand. I've always wanted a set but scared to spend big bucks on a pair I know nothing about. Swamp stomping with Gaitors is fine, as long as I'm not swamp stomping with gators, lol. Is there a pair that would be good for snake bite protection? The diamondbacks, cotton mouths and pygmy's are abundant here in swamp town. Berghaus Yeti. Have owned. They are fucking brilliant. One caveat is that they are hard to get on/off so really need to be dedicated to a pair of boots. But because they're so hard to get on and off they are properly sealed. Yeti Gaiters Demo/Explanation. Not sure about whether or not they'd stop a snake bite but they ARE thick heavy duty material.
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Post by Diz on Aug 6, 2014 7:23:45 GMT -5
The Yetis are so bomb-proof, I'd say you stood a real good chance of stopping a snake bite, kinda like stand-off chicken wire on AV's detonating RPG rounds early. Some guys ran the old GI canvas leggings and they were reported to work well against snake bite in SE Asia.
This is something you guys need to check out. The Brits have been doing this stuff in cold, wet, shitty weather for a long time. Look at the (non-gtx) boots they use, and these gaitors. They work best if you dedicate one pair of boots and glue them on, but it makes one hell of a good combination.
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Boots
Aug 6, 2014 7:28:40 GMT -5
Post by panzer0170 on Aug 6, 2014 7:28:40 GMT -5
The Brits have been doing this stuff in cold, wet, shitty weather for a long time. We shorten it to ' The UK'
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Boots
Aug 8, 2014 18:43:23 GMT -5
Post by eddiewouldclearhot on Aug 8, 2014 18:43:23 GMT -5
Lightweight Merrill MOABs work, and are easy to stock up on. I agree GTX is over rated, it almost hard to find a boot that doesn't have GTX.
Old School jungles and converse monochrome chuck taylors still work.
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Boots
Aug 10, 2014 9:10:06 GMT -5
Post by Diz on Aug 10, 2014 9:10:06 GMT -5
Pretty funny. Yeah the UK should be synonymous with cold, overcast, probably misting rain. But on the other hand, you guys know what works.
One of these days I want to hump Penn Y Fan just to say I did.
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Boots
Aug 10, 2014 9:16:39 GMT -5
Post by panzer0170 on Aug 10, 2014 9:16:39 GMT -5
Pretty funny. Yeah the UK should be synonymous with cold, overcast, probably misting rain. But on the other hand, you guys know what works. One of these days I want to hump Penny Y Fan just to say I did. I'd pay to never have to go over that route, or the dartmoor 30 miler, ever again. (Not SF, never was never will be, but it doesn't mean unit CO's don't wish you were, and trying and get you to do stupid shit, in stupid timeframes.) I don't think I could ever be in Brecon/Dartmoor AND smile. Those two things are mutually exclusive for me now
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Boots
Oct 25, 2014 22:54:52 GMT -5
Post by omnivorous on Oct 25, 2014 22:54:52 GMT -5
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Post by omnivorous on Oct 25, 2014 23:39:23 GMT -5
I believe the these were originally made for the USMC in Afghanistan, and therefore, they have the EGA imprinted onto the outer heel panel. I always felt weird about wearing that, as I don't rate an EGA, but I see that Danner now offers a version without the emblem. I wouldn't worry about that. Its not like you'd be walking around in full uniform, like some stolen valor A-hole. If someone sparks up a conversation about the emblem on the heals, just say you like the boots and support the Corps. Nothing wrong with either of those, in my opinion. Anyone who takes issue with you wearing the boots beyond that, is an A-hole themselves, and ain't worth your time.
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winter
Junior Member
Posts: 479
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Boots
Oct 26, 2014 1:14:56 GMT -5
Post by winter on Oct 26, 2014 1:14:56 GMT -5
I believe the these were originally made for the USMC in Afghanistan, and therefore, they have the EGA imprinted onto the outer heel panel. I always felt weird about wearing that, as I don't rate an EGA, but I see that Danner now offers a version without the emblem. I wouldn't worry about that. Its not like you'd be walking around in full uniform, like some stolen valor A-hole. If someone sparks up a conversation about the emblem on the heals, just say you like the boots and support the Corps. Nothing wrong with either of those, in my opinion. Anyone who takes issue with you wearing the boots beyond that, is an A-hole themselves, and ain't worth your time. You are a really nice guy.
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Post by Diz on Oct 26, 2014 10:50:58 GMT -5
On the subject of boots again...
This is such an important topic with so much bullshit out there that I wanted to add some thoughts. Boots should be one of your top priorities, certainly within the top 5. Without good footwear, you're pretty much dead in the water, in many survival scenarios, where you may have to hike long distances. But just what constitutes the perfect boots for you? Here are some attributes which I have found are critical over the years. I will try and keep my personal preferences out of it, until the end, as an example only. The number one thing about boots you need to understand is FIT. This is more important than the style, or the color, or whatever. It is critical to try on all the different types of boots and see which ones really fit your feet well. After nearly forty odd years of wearing boots, I have found that you immediately know when a good pair of boots fit you. Within the first few seconds of lacing them up, they just feel right. This is not a snap judgment. This is a solid indicator of which boots will actually work well for you in the long run. Go to a store where you try them all on and compare, if possible. If not, avoid mail order vendors with no return policy.
When doing the actual fit, wear your hiking socks of choice. Go early in the day when your feet have not swollen up from use. Size up approx. 1/2", or a thumb nail width, to allow for swelling and down hill travel. That is, your toes should be at least 1/2" from the end of the boot. This is critical. Sizing up slightly in length will prevent much pain and suffering on the trail, especially in hilly or mountainous terrain. Width on the other hand, width needs to be spot on. The boot should hug your foot like a glove in this respect. This is also critical on hilly terrain. I am talking especially about off-road, back woods travel, versus trails, that people normally walk. You might find that certain vendors tend to fit your feet better than others, but they do change over the years so always try them out first.
"Combat" boots, versus civilian hiking boots. Don't fall into the trap that just because they're coyote brown, even if they're gov't issue, they're the boots you just gotta have. Many guys fall into this trap. They want a "military" boot, in a certain color, which becomes their most important criteria, above all others. Some GI boots are great, a lot are junk. Since the GWOT, there has been a huge proliferation of different hiking boot styles, optimized for military use with drab coloring. So you CAN find excellent boots in this genre. But again, make sure the boot fits your actual feet.
If you can get beyond the coyote brown stuff, there are still many very good civilian hiking boots out there that will fit your feet, and situation perfectly. Colors will vary, but many can be found in plain brown or black. While not having the "cache" of militarized boots, they still function perfectly well, especially in extreme environments, which they were born and bred for. This can be a critical factor if a certain vendor makes a boot that fits your foot type perfectly, but doesn't have a militarized version available.
Stitched down traditional boots, versus molded and glued boots. This used to be a very important point, but over the years, it has become so slanted towards the newer, molded and glued boots, that I hesitate to weigh in here, because I'm going to sound some what like an old dinosaur. But I will throw it out there for your consideration. Traditional, stitched-down welt, leather boots used to be the gold standard for serious hiking and mountaineering. But over the past few decades, manufacturing processes have been developed to mass-produce boots that are more efficient to make, and cheaper to buy. So naturally people flocked to buy them, egged on by the "ultralight" crowd. And even if you do go with good stitched down boots, it's getting ever harder to find good cobblers who can re-sole them for you, which used to be a very important attribute. So I say this now with some reservation, although it can still be done with a little effort. A good stitched-down welt (re-solable), heavy-duty hiking boot is still a very good idea for these uncertain times we live in. If resources become scarce to come by, having a good pair of traditional boots, that can last for decades, may be an important factor in your overall survival plan.
Gortex vs Non-GTX. Hoo boy. I used to love this stuff. I still use it, although with reservations. I am heavily invested in gortex boots right now. That's just the reality of it. However, if I was to advise someone else on the subject, I would say go non-gortex, if possible. You have to look, and I mean really hard, but you CAN find good quality, non-gtx boots out there. As was discussed earlier in this thread, the combination of non-gtx boot, gtx-membrane sock, and good gaitors is probably the optimum off-road set-up. But having used gtx boots for nearly 30 years, even though they do have their down-sides, they do still work extremely well. If you are willing, and able, to put up with a few things.
Heavy-duty vs light weight. We briefly touched on this before but this is also something you need to decide on. Lately there has been this mass proliferation of light weight "sneaker cousin" hiking boots, which seem to fit the life and times we live in. Instead of buying for a life-time, we have been buying things, including boots that only last a short time, especially with heavy use. This is just a sign of the times, as we have become used to cheap, abundant supplies of everything we desire. Resupply has not been much of an issue. Low cost is very attractive. So we have fallen into this trap of becoming dependent on a constant re-supply of all our needs. Although it works now, more or less, the danger is in any break down of this supply chain. I believe it is much more prudent to buy more expensive, but also more durable goods, for possible hard times ahead. Obviously this is a minority opinion. Yes, traditional boots are heavier, and much more expensive. But they can literally be the difference between you making it, and not. TNSTAAFL.
High-end vendor vs Box Store boots. This is going to sound some what contradictory, but bear with me. If you have the time and money to seek out the perfect boot, do so. Your feet will thank you for it. But, there may be times and places where this is simply not possible. In an extreme survival situation, you may be caught out without proper footwear, or you may even wear out your proper footwear, with no way of repair. It now becomes a matter of replacing, if possible, what you're wearing on your feet. In this case, you might seek out any available source of boots. This might involve a recon mission into an urban area, where your only source of boots might be a big box retailer. This is the classic situation depicted in film and books, where our hero resupplies himself from available stocks in his travels. Although a bit over-worked, it still holds some validity. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Wallyworld, buck leather working boots, AS LONG AS they actually fit your feet. They may be heavy, and butt-ugly, but they will work. Then again, you might run across a Mast General Store, or Gander Mountain. Do the best you can.
Brick and Mortar Store vs On-Line. I prefer to go to a store that has a good boot fitter and get sound advice, along with being able to try on several different boots at once. If this is not possible, then go to an on-line vendor with a good return policy. Buy several different pair and compare. Send back what you don't need. If a vendor balks at doing this and wants you to eat all the postage, go somewhere else, if possible.
I am currently running Danner Acadias as my go-to boots. I got my first pair back in '86. I have been wearing them continually ever since. They started out at about $165.00, they are currently around $250.00. I have had about a half dozen pair. I have re-soled many of them 3 times. The older ones used to lace up about one eyelet closer to the toe, and were slightly narrower, which I really liked, seeing as my feet are slightly narrower than normal. The newer ones still fit OK, just not as well initially as the older ones. With Lexol boot conditioner, and lots of break-in wear, they eventually come around to my exact foot shape. They really do wear like iron, especially in off-road situations. I've never had a single failure in all this time. But, on the other hand, they are heavy, and hot, and have a gortex liner. Now this can be both a blessing and a curse. They really do keep water out, as long as you can keep it from going over the top. When they're wet, they're gonna stay wet, for a long time. Like days. So here's the deal. For hilly, mountainous terrain, where your foot probably won't be totally submersed, they are awesome. For lowland swampy areas, where they are likely to be submersed, there are probably better choices. For uneven, rocky terrain, they are excellent. For wearing around town, the sole will wear down much faster. So there's no free lunch here. They are built to last for decades, but you pay for that durability in many ways. But this is just one boot within this category. There are several other vendors out there making a similar boot. If this one fits you, then it will serve you well for many years.
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Post by USMC0331 on Oct 26, 2014 12:23:41 GMT -5
My boots have about worn out, can't decide if I should buy another pair of the glued style or rebuild my Whites Smoke Jumpers for EDC.
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Boots
Oct 26, 2014 17:46:04 GMT -5
Post by Diz on Oct 26, 2014 17:46:04 GMT -5
Shoot, you know my vote.
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